OWB, have an interesting article for you to read (anyone else can read it, too.)
Embryonic Stem Cell Research vs. Adult Stem Cell Research
Embryonic Stem Cell Research vs. Adult Stem Cell Research
Senate passes stem cell bill
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OrangeEmpire
The White Debonair
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He vetoed the bill because he didn't agree with it morally based on his personal beliefs.
As for me I'm split on this issue. I would love for people who have illnesses which have taken away part of their life to be able to walk again or do something they aren't able to do right now.
However what you all have to understand is that researchers are still YEARS AWAY were talking 20 years before the technology and research provides a drug or whatever that will help victims of certain illnesses. We may never see anything come from this research in our lifetimes, but maybe our kids.
My other problem with this whole thing is the whole basis of "playing God" It's not a wise thing to do and I also come from the belief and value system that things happen to people for a reason, and yes bad things happen to good people. I've always lived by the motto of "**** happens and when it does you need to do your best to wash the **** off and move on with life" don't sit there staring into the wind with the **** on you. I think life is a test and a big part of the test is to see how you as a human being can overcome the odds that are thrown at you. Some will buckle at the knees and fail, others will prevail.
So in closing I believe that some people are under the false delusion that if we gave 10000 billion dollars to this research that next month a drug will be produced and given to those who need it and all will be well with the world.
I don't think the federal government should be providing money to a controversial medical program like this, and simply stay out of it. If people want to do research in the private field then so be it. If people want to raise donations for the private funding then so be it, but I don't want my tax dollars going towards a program I don't believe deep down is morally or ethnically right.
The question to myself I always ask when I talk about or write about this issue is could I say that in front of someone suffereing from a illness or disease?
I love the U.S. but I don't think we are the best in the world at everything and we have ethical problems in our country.
Also if people want to support the private programs then why don't they start donating the embroyos to the private companies? In the end your going to make more money off of private donations then you are of the federal government.
This is one of those damn if we do or damed if we don't to me personally. I just don't think we should have that kind of power to decide things like this. We are opening Pandora's box by doing these types of things and we are now tooling with natural processes. Call me superstitutious or whatever I just don't think deep down that it's right.
I mean it's like the scenario where you are dirt poor and you have a family to feed but you can't and you have the option to rob a bank or kill someone for money. Do you do it? Or do you let your family starve?
*Sorry edited for a side note....
We don't know what stem cells will do yet because we haven't been able to study them. Biotech research is always on the brink of the next miracle drug. Monoclonals were going to change disease therapy as we know it. Then it was gene therapy, then it was radiotagged monoclonals, followed by small molecule therapy, and now it is stem cells.
There are some monoclonals (maybe about a half dozen) on the market, primarily in blood cancers and autoimmune diseases, gene therapy still hasn't lived up to the promise and it is doubtful it will for the forseeable future. Small molecules have shown efficacy in combination chemo, but none are the blockbuster that was envisioned.
So I am not willing to jump on the stem cell bandwagon as cure for everything from Parkinson't to athlete's foot until I see some data on the treatment in humans. And we don't have any. To date we have done stem cell therapy in mouse models and in vitro human cells. They show some promise.
But humans aren't mice, nor do we develop in isolation in a petri dish kept in optimal conditions. We are probably at least a half a decade away from human trials, and better than twice that before the therapies are approved. Sad, but true.
As for me I'm split on this issue. I would love for people who have illnesses which have taken away part of their life to be able to walk again or do something they aren't able to do right now.
However what you all have to understand is that researchers are still YEARS AWAY were talking 20 years before the technology and research provides a drug or whatever that will help victims of certain illnesses. We may never see anything come from this research in our lifetimes, but maybe our kids.
My other problem with this whole thing is the whole basis of "playing God" It's not a wise thing to do and I also come from the belief and value system that things happen to people for a reason, and yes bad things happen to good people. I've always lived by the motto of "**** happens and when it does you need to do your best to wash the **** off and move on with life" don't sit there staring into the wind with the **** on you. I think life is a test and a big part of the test is to see how you as a human being can overcome the odds that are thrown at you. Some will buckle at the knees and fail, others will prevail.
So in closing I believe that some people are under the false delusion that if we gave 10000 billion dollars to this research that next month a drug will be produced and given to those who need it and all will be well with the world.
I don't think the federal government should be providing money to a controversial medical program like this, and simply stay out of it. If people want to do research in the private field then so be it. If people want to raise donations for the private funding then so be it, but I don't want my tax dollars going towards a program I don't believe deep down is morally or ethnically right.
The question to myself I always ask when I talk about or write about this issue is could I say that in front of someone suffereing from a illness or disease?
I love the U.S. but I don't think we are the best in the world at everything and we have ethical problems in our country.
Also if people want to support the private programs then why don't they start donating the embroyos to the private companies? In the end your going to make more money off of private donations then you are of the federal government.
This is one of those damn if we do or damed if we don't to me personally. I just don't think we should have that kind of power to decide things like this. We are opening Pandora's box by doing these types of things and we are now tooling with natural processes. Call me superstitutious or whatever I just don't think deep down that it's right.
I mean it's like the scenario where you are dirt poor and you have a family to feed but you can't and you have the option to rob a bank or kill someone for money. Do you do it? Or do you let your family starve?
*Sorry edited for a side note....
We don't know what stem cells will do yet because we haven't been able to study them. Biotech research is always on the brink of the next miracle drug. Monoclonals were going to change disease therapy as we know it. Then it was gene therapy, then it was radiotagged monoclonals, followed by small molecule therapy, and now it is stem cells.
There are some monoclonals (maybe about a half dozen) on the market, primarily in blood cancers and autoimmune diseases, gene therapy still hasn't lived up to the promise and it is doubtful it will for the forseeable future. Small molecules have shown efficacy in combination chemo, but none are the blockbuster that was envisioned.
So I am not willing to jump on the stem cell bandwagon as cure for everything from Parkinson't to athlete's foot until I see some data on the treatment in humans. And we don't have any. To date we have done stem cell therapy in mouse models and in vitro human cells. They show some promise.
But humans aren't mice, nor do we develop in isolation in a petri dish kept in optimal conditions. We are probably at least a half a decade away from human trials, and better than twice that before the therapies are approved. Sad, but true.
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He vetoed the bill because he didn't agree with it morally based on his personal beliefs.
I don't know about you, but I'm sick and tired W's "morals." We as Americans are nothing more than sheep if we think that man has one moral fiber in his being. What a joke.
As for me I'm split on this issue. I would love for people who have illnesses which have taken away part of their life to be able to walk again or do something they aren't able to do right now.
Don't forget about the people who have to sacrifice big parts of their lives taking care of these people.
However what you all have to understand is that researchers are still YEARS AWAY were talking 20 years before the technology and research provides a drug or whatever that will help victims of certain illnesses. We may never see anything come from this research in our lifetimes, but maybe our kids.
I don't think 20 years is accurate, but let's say it is. NOW, we're looking at possibly 25-30 years at best. You Republicans sure are hard on your kids, "Who cares about global warming and stem cell research?" "We probably won't benefit so who cares about it?" :wacko:
My other problem with this whole thing is the whole basis of "playing God"
When was the last time you saw God performing a complicated surgery in the emergency room? When was the last time the skies opened up and he told us the cure to some ailment and when was the last time that he spoke out against us doing whatever we can to cure the diseases? Do you think that God created these diseases to punish us? I thought he loved us.
I think life is a test and a big part of the test is to see how you as a human being can overcome the odds that are thrown at you. Some will buckle at the knees and fail, others will prevail.
Some people can't even buckle at the knees because they can't walk. Somthing the research could've helped. Long gone are the movie miracles for these people.
So in closing I believe that some people are under the false delusion that if we gave 10000 billion dollars to this research that next month a drug will be produced and given to those who need it and all will be well with the world.
I guess we'll never know huh? But what if it was fully funded and a cure came out in 5-10 years for some horrible illnesses? Or what if you were (and I certainly hope this isn't the case) struck with one of the illnesses in 5 years? Would you look back and wish they would have started earlier?
I don't think the federal government should be providing money to a controversial medical program like this, and simply stay out of it. If people want to do research in the private field then so be it. If people want to raise donations for the private funding then so be it, but I don't want my tax dollars going towards a program I don't believe deep down is morally or ethnically right.
Those are your thoughts and beliefs on that and I will respect them to the best of my ability, but you waste your tax dollars on much worse than trying to help miserable people into having a better quality of life.
The question to myself I always ask when I talk about or write about this issue is could I say that in front of someone suffereing from a illness or disease?
I'm being serious when I say this, maybe you should give that a try and see.
Also if people want to support the private programs then why don't they start donating the embroyos to the private companies? In the end your going to make more money off of private donations then you are of the federal government.
I'm not sure about that.
This is one of those damn if we do or damed if we don't to me personally. I just don't think we should have that kind of power to decide things like this. We are opening Pandora's box by doing these types of things and we are now tooling with natural processes. Call me superstitutious or whatever I just don't think deep down that it's right.
Again, that's your right to feel that way, but Pandora's box isn't real.
I mean it's like the scenario where you are dirt poor and you have a family to feed but you can't and you have the option to rob a bank or kill someone for money. Do you do it? Or do you let your family starve?
I don't see the link here.. I understand what you're saying, but I don't think it's a similar scenario..
I don't know about you, but I'm sick and tired W's "morals." We as Americans are nothing more than sheep if we think that man has one moral fiber in his being. What a joke.
As for me I'm split on this issue. I would love for people who have illnesses which have taken away part of their life to be able to walk again or do something they aren't able to do right now.
Don't forget about the people who have to sacrifice big parts of their lives taking care of these people.
However what you all have to understand is that researchers are still YEARS AWAY were talking 20 years before the technology and research provides a drug or whatever that will help victims of certain illnesses. We may never see anything come from this research in our lifetimes, but maybe our kids.
I don't think 20 years is accurate, but let's say it is. NOW, we're looking at possibly 25-30 years at best. You Republicans sure are hard on your kids, "Who cares about global warming and stem cell research?" "We probably won't benefit so who cares about it?" :wacko:
My other problem with this whole thing is the whole basis of "playing God"
When was the last time you saw God performing a complicated surgery in the emergency room? When was the last time the skies opened up and he told us the cure to some ailment and when was the last time that he spoke out against us doing whatever we can to cure the diseases? Do you think that God created these diseases to punish us? I thought he loved us.
I think life is a test and a big part of the test is to see how you as a human being can overcome the odds that are thrown at you. Some will buckle at the knees and fail, others will prevail.
Some people can't even buckle at the knees because they can't walk. Somthing the research could've helped. Long gone are the movie miracles for these people.
So in closing I believe that some people are under the false delusion that if we gave 10000 billion dollars to this research that next month a drug will be produced and given to those who need it and all will be well with the world.
I guess we'll never know huh? But what if it was fully funded and a cure came out in 5-10 years for some horrible illnesses? Or what if you were (and I certainly hope this isn't the case) struck with one of the illnesses in 5 years? Would you look back and wish they would have started earlier?
I don't think the federal government should be providing money to a controversial medical program like this, and simply stay out of it. If people want to do research in the private field then so be it. If people want to raise donations for the private funding then so be it, but I don't want my tax dollars going towards a program I don't believe deep down is morally or ethnically right.
Those are your thoughts and beliefs on that and I will respect them to the best of my ability, but you waste your tax dollars on much worse than trying to help miserable people into having a better quality of life.
The question to myself I always ask when I talk about or write about this issue is could I say that in front of someone suffereing from a illness or disease?
I'm being serious when I say this, maybe you should give that a try and see.
Also if people want to support the private programs then why don't they start donating the embroyos to the private companies? In the end your going to make more money off of private donations then you are of the federal government.
I'm not sure about that.
This is one of those damn if we do or damed if we don't to me personally. I just don't think we should have that kind of power to decide things like this. We are opening Pandora's box by doing these types of things and we are now tooling with natural processes. Call me superstitutious or whatever I just don't think deep down that it's right.
Again, that's your right to feel that way, but Pandora's box isn't real.
I mean it's like the scenario where you are dirt poor and you have a family to feed but you can't and you have the option to rob a bank or kill someone for money. Do you do it? Or do you let your family starve?
I don't see the link here.. I understand what you're saying, but I don't think it's a similar scenario..
I agree that the federal government wastes plenty of my money and everyone else's money. I also believe that funneling federal money towards potentially ground breaking medical research is making better use of my tax dollars than many other government ventures. For that, I support federal funding of adult stem cell research. I do not advocate my tax dollars being spent for embyronic stem cell research, however, I also do not feel the federal government (state and local maybe) should step in and stop the private research of it.
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(therealUT @ Jul 20 said:
Yes I just read it. While I think that alternative research is better than nothing, it's still not the same and can't offer the answers that embryonic research could. The Democrats haven't had any balls for years now, I don't expect that to change, especially on this topic.
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OrangeEmpire
The White Debonair
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OrangeEmpire
The White Debonair
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orange+white=heaven
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smoke_em06
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(therealUT @ Jul 19 said:
lol: Wow. I'm actually in tears.As for this issue, remember that it is not "research" that is in question. It is only the use of EMBRYONIC stem cells. I understand W's dilemma (and it's not a good one to have), as no one can truly answer with certainty when "life" begins. No, there are no arms and legs yet, but there is a full complement of 46 chromosomes with dividing and growing cells. It seems a little unreasonable that either side can definitively say that something either "is" or "isn't" a live person. That is completely dependable upon the criteria or definition you use.
Also, there is NO guarantee that a cure for anything would come of this research. It certainly has promise, but to say that Bush is vetoing "help for sick people" is a stretch.
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