Senator tells Holder to resign.

#26
#26
Vols4us said:
Well stated. Add in that the boss lied to Congress about his knowledge and involvement as proven in the leaked documents. POS needs to go. Maybe he can work with lawgator.
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Holder will delay falling on his own sword for as long as he can, maybe all the way, but the truth of the matter is that Obama lied to the medai about his own envolvement in fast and furious.

It's sad to say but LG working with Holder would be a step up for LG. :no:
 
#27
#27
gsvol said:
Holder will delay falling on his own sword for as long as he can, maybe all the way, but the truth of the matter is that Obama lied to the medai about his own envolvement in fast and furious.

It's sad to say but LG working with Holder would be a step up for LG. :no:
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I'm calling you out here, gs.

1) What EXACTLY did Obama say about his own "involvement" in F&F?

2) What EXACTLY was his actual "involvement" that you say he lied about?

Let's not have your usual rank speculation or conjecture or made up crap by the lunatic fringe. Let's have real quotes about what Obama actually said and let's have real proof to the contrary.

I am really doubting you can do actually prove anything here.
 
#30
#30
lawgator1 said:
Have a feeling I may not ever get an answer.
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The people closest to the problem know the answer:

Border Patrol group calls for Holder’s resignation

The National Border Patrol Council, which represents all 17,000 of the agency’s nonsupervisory agents, called Monday for the resignation of Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. for his role in the botched “Fast and Furious” gunrunning operation that resulted in the death of a U.S. Border Patrol agent.

Council President George E. McCubbin III, a 25-year Border Patrol veteran, described Mr. Holder’s actions in the case as “a slap in the face to all Border Patrol agents who serve this country,” adding that the attorney general showed “an utter failure of leadership at the highest levels of government.”
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#31
#31
#33
#33
Danl said:
He might be busy trying to find a source for his statement that Canada spends 60% of their budget on healthcare. That will take a while, I think.
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The latest figures I could find for funds spent, not budgeted, was 2003 and it was only 40% of their annual expenditures. Of course that was the national number, it's my understanding that a large amount is expended from the provinces and territories. Possible they make up the other 20% I guess. Maybe not.
 
#34
#34
KentheOrange said:
The latest figures I could find for funds spent, not budgeted, was 2003 and it was only 40% of their annual expenditures. Of course that was the national number, it's my understanding that a large amount is expended from the provinces and territories. Possible they make up the other 20% I guess. Maybe not.
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Interesting. Could you post a link?

I found this: Federal general government revenue and expenditures

According to the Canadian feds, they only spend about 11% on health care. The latest year in the table is 2009. Or I am misreading the data?


Edit: Also found this http://www.fin.gc.ca/tax-impot/2011/2011-eng.pdf which seems to claim that they spent 10% in 2011.......
 
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#35
#35
lawgator1 said:
Not responsive.

gs says that Obama has lied about his own role in F & F. I am asking what Obama said about his own role and for the evidence that whatever he said is a lie.

He will answer, but it will be with the usual rank guessing and flat out made up stuff.
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He gave an interview to some news outlet in which he said he din't know squat about fast and furious.

If that statement is true then he must have not been communicating at all with his own white house staff, as well as Holder, Napolitano, Hitlery Clinton and others.

holder-obama-3.jpg


Fast and Furious is NOT the only reason to put the corrupt Eric Holder in an Orange jumpsuit « « Coach is RightCoach is Right

Eric Holder’s part in Fast and Furious and its cover up constitute serious felonious conduct.
-------------------------

Nevertheless, Eric Holder was involved in a much greater crime, one that official Washington of both Parties has yet to find enough courage to even mention, let alone investigate it.
------------------------

All Jesse Trentadue wanted was answers about how his brother died and nothing more. Trentadue was not on a political crusade. He had no idea the strange pieces of information he was able to pry out of the Federal Government using Freedom of Information requests would take him from Oklahoma City to the office of Assistant United States Attorney Eric Holder in Washington.
--------------------------

Trentadue came upon the fact that Eric Holder had been sent from Washington to Oklahoma City to “manage” the investigation surrounding Trantadue’s death. That is clear and not contradicted by any available evidence, but why did Eric Holder assume that responsibility?
----------------

Jesse Trentadue’s lawsuit proved the Clinton FBI, Department of Justice and CIA were behind (NOT involved in or mixed up in, but BEHIND) the Oklahoma City bombing and that Bill Clinton KNEW he needed his most reliable “cleaner” to smother the story a supine media was only too happy to ignore.
--------------------

Keep this in mind as this week’s events unfold in the House investigation of Eric Holder’s part in Fast and Furious continues. See the many attached links and decide for yourself about Holder. Is Fast and Furious or Oklahoma City Eric Holder’s worst crime?
------------------------

Upon Jesse taking the federal government to court, a federal judge ruled that the FBI had not only lied about Kenneth Trentadue’s death, the Bureau was also found guilty of having destroyed evidence concerning the case.

In 2001 the Trentadue family was awarded $1.1 million, $250,000 of which remains a reward for information leading to the conviction of Kenneth Trentadue’s killers.

In late November, Newsweek magazine was to run a story revealing the history of PATCON, the Oklahoma City bombing complete with the part played by Eric Holder, the FBI initiated killings at Waco and Ruby Ridge and the subsequent murder of Kenneth Trentadue.
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The ATF might have prevented the Oklahoma City bombing « « Coach is RightCoach is Right

While the show trial of Oklahoma City bomber Tim McVeigh was being conducted at Denver, Colorado in April of 1997, another federal proceeding was taking place in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

But no one seemed particularly interested in this case–the federal prosecution of former beauty queen and Oklahoma debutante Carol Howe for making bomb threats against the government of the United States.

No one, that is, but the Department of Justice itself. And attorneys representing the Department were interested enough to exhibit virtual desperation when privately begging Judge Michael Burrage to seal the case and all appertaining information lest it be acquired by McVeigh attorneys in Denver!

For some 8 months prior to the April 19, 1995 destruction of the Alfred P. Murrah federal building, Carol Howe had been acting as an informant for the ATF. Her mission was to gather information from and about friends and acquaintances located in Elohim Cty, Oklahoma, a known hangout for neo-Nazi and white supremacist groups in the state.

And although Judge Burrage did indeed seal the records of her trial, a leaked “Transcript of Proceedings” conducted in a sealed hearing make it clear that Howe had reported to her ATF contact that Andreas Strassmeir, a German national living in Elohim City who had over-stayed his American visa, was both an explosives expert and had made threats about blowing up a federal building in Oklahoma City.
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#36
#36
As predicted.

He made some statement to some news outfit but must have known more than he says because someone else did, never mind what.
 
#37
#37
Danl said:
Interesting. Could you post a link?

I found this: Federal general government revenue and expenditures

According to the Canadian feds, they only spend about 11% on health care. The latest year in the table is 2009. Or I am misreading the data?


Edit: Also found this http://www.fin.gc.ca/tax-impot/2011/2011-eng.pdf which seems to claim that they spent 10% in 2011.......
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I'm not sure what they include or exclude in summary reports or how that may have changed over the years. Did find this interesting:
CIHI - Health spending to reach $200 billion in 2011

Health care spending not growing as share of provincial and territorial government budgets

Since health care delivery is a provincial/territorial responsibility in Canada, the vast majority of public-sector health dollars are spent by provincial and territorial governments. In 2010, the latest year of available data, health care is estimated to account for about 38% of provincial/territorial government spending. However, this proportion varies among provinces, from 30.4% in Quebec and 33.9% in Newfoundland and Labrador to 44.5% in Manitoba and 47.2% in Nova Scotia.

“Our study identifies several areas to monitor for the future in terms of health care spending,” says Berthelot. “For example, increases in the number of health professionals, changes in their scope of practice and the introduction of new technologies—such as new cancer biologic drugs—may all continue to have a significant impact on what we collectively pay for health care. Canadian governments, and society as a whole, will need to balance the health needs of the population against overall costs to ensure Canadians have an efficient, effective and sustainable system.”
 
#38
#38
Danl said:
Interesting. Could you post a link?

I found this: Federal general government revenue and expenditures

According to the Canadian feds, they only spend about 11% on health care. The latest year in the table is 2009. Or I am misreading the data?


Edit: Also found this http://www.fin.gc.ca/tax-impot/2011/2011-eng.pdf which seems to claim that they spent 10% in 2011.......
Click to expand...


toilet_give_birth_to_a_democrat.jpg


I was quoting a Canadian national, he may not have his facts right but I doubt it.

He was most irate over his sister being told her cancer was untreatable and she was terminal.

Remember Sarah Palin talking about the death panels in Obamacare?

The Canadian's sister came to America, paid for her own treatment and is now happy and healthy.






lawgator1 said:
Waiting ....
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The head of the Phoenix ATF office made more than one trip to Washington, logged into the White House to visit with Obama's chief of staff and Fast and Furious was never mentioned?

OOOPS! Trying to COVER up, Obama TRIPPED up Attorney General Holder on Fast and Furious « « Coach is RightCoach is Right

In March of this year, Barack Obama participated in a taped interview with CNN Espanol. Asked about Fast and Furious–a subject which had enraged the political class of Mexico, given that the Mexican government had not been informed of the massive Obama Regime initiated scheme of “gun walking” into their nation–Obama claimed very meager knowledge of the Operation.

Said Obama to the interviewer, “I heard on the news about this story that–Fast and Furious, where allegedly guns were being run into Mexico and ATF knew about it, but didn’t apprehend those who had sent it.” (1)

‘Eric Holder has–the attorney general had been very clear thet he knew nothing abut this. We [have] assigned an I.G., inspector general, to investigate it.”

This information, complete with video, was presented by CNN reporter John King during his interview with Democrat Congressman and Obama/Holder apologist, Elijah Cummings.

And King’s question to Cummings following the video presentations of Holder’s May 3rd testimony and Obama’s March interview was pointed: “How did the President know about this in March and how did the President know the attorney general knew NOTHING (my caps) about this in March, when the attorney general says in May he just learned about it a couple of weeks ago?” (1)

An interesting question, isn’t it! And equally mystifying, how could the Fast and Furious ignorant Holder and Obama appoint Department of Justice Inspector General Cynthia Schnedar in March to investigate the case if Obama had only “heard about it in the news” and Holder hadn’t heard of it at all?

The claims of these administration leaders don’t exactly pass the smell test. And worst of all for the Regime, even CNN has begun to report news damaging to its beloved President!
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What hasn't Obama lied about?

The only thing I can think of is him saying energy costs would skyrocket but then he is able to head us in that direction based on the lie that CO2 is a polutant.
 
#39
#39
Ah, so now you assume that Obama was behind it because someone in the Phoenix field office went to the WH and visited someone else?

This just gets worse and worse for you.

Why not just admit that you cannot demonstrate a link between Obama and F & F and that you overclaimed the point earlier? You can still argue its his responsibility because he's captain of the ship. At least that has some credibility.
 
#40
#40
KentheOrange said:
I'm not sure what they include or exclude in summary reports or how that may have changed over the years. Did find this interesting:
CIHI - Health spending to reach $200 billion in 2011

Health care spending not growing as share of provincial and territorial government budgets

Since health care delivery is a provincial/territorial responsibility in Canada, the vast majority of public-sector health dollars are spent by provincial and territorial governments. In 2010, the latest year of available data, health care is estimated to account for about 38% of provincial/territorial government spending. However, this proportion varies among provinces, from 30.4% in Quebec and 33.9% in Newfoundland and Labrador to 44.5% in Manitoba and 47.2% in Nova Scotia.

“Our study identifies several areas to monitor for the future in terms of health care spending,” says Berthelot. “For example, increases in the number of health professionals, changes in their scope of practice and the introduction of new technologies—such as new cancer biologic drugs—may all continue to have a significant impact on what we collectively pay for health care. Canadian governments, and society as a whole, will need to balance the health needs of the population against overall costs to ensure Canadians have an efficient, effective and sustainable system.”
Click to expand...


According to your cited source, the Canadians are spending $5,800 per person on health care. And that is as of 2011.

The U.S. spent $7,146 per person. Health care in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And that was in 2008. I assure you, the price did not go down over the last 3 years.

Meanwhile, the life expectancy in
Canada is over 78 years, whereas in the US it is 77.

cost_longlife75.gif


The chart was based on 2000 figures, but illustrates the principle.
 
#42
#42
Contempt vote tomorrow. Wonder what will happen? Could it be that they were going to do this no matter what? Maybe to try to discredit the head of the DOJ as it goes after these GOP fake voter fraud measures to stymie Dem turnout?

Nah, I'm sure that the the GOP is just going after this program, which began in the Bush administration by the way, out of principle.
 
#43
#43
lawgator1 said:
Ah, so now you assume that Obama was behind it because someone in the Phoenix field office went to the WH and visited someone else?

This just gets worse and worse for you.

Why not just admit that you cannot demonstrate a link between Obama and F & F and that you overclaimed the point earlier? You can still argue its his responsibility because he's captain of the ship. At least that has some credibility.
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So what you are saying then is Obama (our President) in your opinion was clueless that the AG and other departments were running guns across the boarder and letting them be used to kill US citizens and government employees?

nice.

I think I'd rather my President be a crook than a moron.
 
#44
#44
lawgator1 said:
Contempt vote tomorrow. Wonder what will happen? Could it be that they were going to do this no matter what? Maybe to try to discredit the head of the DOJ as it goes after these GOP fake voter fraud measures to stymie Dem turnout?

Nah, I'm sure that the the GOP is just going after this program, which began in the Bush administration by the way, out of principle.
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I guess it doesn't matter to you that not one person in the administration has had any contact with the Terry family either.
 
#45
#45
punkcat said:
I guess it doesn't matter to you that not one person in the administration has had any contact with the Terry family either.
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What does that have to do with the issue at hand ?

The program was stupid. Despite the fact that it was developed under Bush, the GOP have politicized the terrible outcome and to lay it at the feet of an AG they hate because he is enforcing federal voting laws against them.

It is purely political and insulting to Terry for the GOP to use him this way.
 
#46
#46
NEOCON said:
So what you are saying then is Obama (our President) in your opinion was clueless that the AG and other departments were running guns across the boarder and letting them be used to kill US citizens and government employees?

nice.

I think I'd rather my President be a crook than a moron.
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Good thing ours is neither.
 
#47
#47
lawgator1 said:
Contempt vote tomorrow. Wonder what will happen? Could it be that they were going to do this no matter what? Maybe to try to discredit the head of the DOJ as it goes after these GOP fake voter fraud measures to stymie Dem turnout?

Nah, I'm sure that the the GOP is just going after this program, which began in the Bush administration by the way, out of principle.
Click to expand...

you do realize that during the Bush administration, the weapons purchased through straw purchasers were never allowed to cross the border?
 
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