Senator tells Holder to resign.

[volinbham]

Issa's committee just voted to forward contempt charges (23-17). Party line but maybe one D vote in favor (I think the committee is 22(R); 18(D))

EDIT: Committee is 22R; 16D - not sure where the 2 extra votes came from - perhaps Chair and ranking member?

 

[StoVol]

The vote was 23 to 17 , I loled at your point about the pres having no effect on the economy yet we hear blame bush every day. It is funny seeing less than brilliant people argue points they are dancing around that day... I caught the end and heard about 12 successive nays from the dems, then the lady said the ayes have it 23 to 17

 

[lawgator1]

How can Bush be to blame with his "failed policies" if the POTUS doesn't have much control at all over the economy?

More seriously, the election is forward looking - people will be looking at who is better suited to move things in the right direction. Obama's biggest weakness is that his actions to date haven't made any appreciable difference in economic conditions but have and do appear to have had a big impact on the debt.

I place some blame on Bush due to the tax cuts, some dubious spending, deregulation of parts of the financing industry, and definitely the misplaced war in Iraq.

But as I've said on more than a few occasions, a lot of what we are seeing right now has to do with structural changes going on in industry and our economy caused by technology.

With things like scanning of documents, the cloud, voice recognition, symbol recognition, tracking, etc., basically an entire genre of jobs -- clerical assistants -- is being crushed almost out of existence.


Those changes, in my opinion, are inevitable and a substantial contributor to the current malaise.

 

[punkcat]

What does that have to do with the issue at hand ?

The program was stupid. Despite the fact that it was developed under Bush, the GOP have politicized the terrible outcome and to lay it at the feet of an AG they hate because he is enforcing federal voting laws against them.

It is purely political and insulting to Terry for the GOP to use him this way.

Did a law enforcement officer die under those other programs? No. You are nothing more than a blabbering idiot. (typical attorney)

 

[therealUT]

Did a law enforcement officer die under those other programs? No. You are nothing more than a blabbering idiot. (typical attorney)

Holder did not kill anyone.

 

[dreVol]

where are the revs. Jackson and sharpton? obviously this is a ginned up controversy predicated on tea party racism and white fear mongering?

 

[StoVol]

Holder did not kill anyone.

He has sworn an oath to provide justice to the families of the victims of anyone who is killed tho. For instance:

Washington, DC – Terry family attorney Pat McGroder released the following statement from Brian Terry’s parents Josephine Terry and Kent Terry Sr.

“Attorney General Eric Holder’s refusal to fully disclose the documents associated with Operation Fast and Furious and President Obama’s assertion of executive privilege serves to compound this tragedy. It denies the Terry family and the American people the truth. Our son, Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry, was killed by members of a Mexican drug cartel armed with weapons from this failed Justice Department gun trafficking investigation. For more than 18 months we have been asking our federal government for justice and accountability. The documents sought by the House Oversight Committee and associated with Operation Fast and Furious should be produced and turned over to the committee. Our son lost his life protecting this nation, and it is very disappointing that we are now faced with an administration that seems more concerned with protecting themselves rather than revealing the truth behind Operation Fast and Furious.”

 

[therealUT]

He has sworn an oath to provide justice to the families of the victims of anyone who is killed tho. For instance:

And?

The Terry family is doing the same thing that Cindy Sheehan was doing: exploiting the death of their son by asking questions to which the Federal Government does not have to respond and trying to discredit the individuals in the administration by doing so.

 

[KentheOrange]

And?

The Terry family is doing the same thing that Cindy Sheehan was doing: exploiting the death of their son by asking questions to which the Federal Government does not have to respond and trying to discredit the individuals in the administration by doing so.

You have much in common with a Christmas turkey!

 

[gsvol]

You have much in common with a Christmas turkey!

I think it's the oyster dressing that gives him away! :lolabove:

Texas Conservative Republican News: Vote PASSES, Eric Holder in CONTEMPT - Obama Executive Privilege & "Evolving Truth" No Good in Fast and Furious - Dems Want Gun Control

House Oversight Committee Has Just Passed a Resolution Holding Attorney General Eric Holder in Contempt for not releasing fast and furious documents. The Contempt Charge now goes to the entire House for a vote on holding Holder in Contempt before it is sent to prosecution.The committee even passed an amendment with many reasons why Obama's executive privilege is not valid.

Some of the reasons include the fact that the time Obama should have claimed executive privilege was 8 months ago when Eric Holder was first called to testify, and also the fact that the president has not even claimed executive privilege and instead they have heard it from the DOJ who is not authorized to invoke the privilege.

Obama asserts executive privilege ahead of Holder contempt vote - TheHill.com

Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), the ranking member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, said Obama's assertion of executive privilege raises "monumental questions" about whether the White House was involved in the authorization of or the fallout from the botched gun-tracking operation.

"How can the president assert executive privilege if there was no White House involvement? How can the president exert executive privilege over documents he's supposedly never seen?" Grassley said in a statement. "Is something very big being hidden to go to this extreme?"

Obama repeatedly has said he did not know about the tactics used in Fast and Furious and plans to hold the people who authorized them responsible.

Texas Conservative Republican News: Vote PASSES, Eric Holder in CONTEMPT - Obama Executive Privilege & "Evolving Truth" No Good in Fast and Furious - Dems Want Gun Control

Obama’s invocation of executive privilege is seen as an attempt to provide legal cover for Holder’s refusal. A deputy attorney general, quoted in the L.A. Times, said releasing the documents “would have significant, damaging consequences.”

Grassley, a Republican, has been following the case closely for the more than a year, and has been sharply critical of the Obama administration’s handling of it. On Wednesday, he raised several questions about the assertion of privilege and offered much criticism of the administration.

“I’m dumbfounded with this action of the president,” Grassley said in his weekly press call with Iowa reporters. “This is gamesmanship. If this were a serious claim, they would have and should have raised it last night in our discussion.”

That discussion took place between Grassley, Holder and House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa, R-California, and was a last-ditch effort for Congress and the administration to reach an agreement before Issa’s committee initiated contempt. During the 20-minute meeting, Holder never suggested the documents might fall under executive privilege, Grassley said. making today’s move unexpected and raising questions about its sincerity.

“It’s a complete shock,” he said. “How come executive privilege could be instituted at this point when it’s never been raised in the last 18 months and it wasn’t raised last night?”

The fact that the president has stepped in to prevent Congress from receiving access to Fast and Furious documents raises questions about the White House’s involvement in the program and whether something “very big” is being hidden, he said.

 

[MG1968]

I place some blame on Bush due to the tax cuts, some dubious spending, deregulation of parts of the financing industry, and definitely the misplaced war in Iraq.

But as I've said on more than a few occasions, a lot of what we are seeing right now has to do with structural changes going on in industry and our economy caused by technology.

With things like scanning of documents, the cloud, voice recognition, symbol recognition, tracking, etc., basically an entire genre of jobs -- clerical assistants -- is being crushed almost out of existence.


Those changes, in my opinion, are inevitable and a substantial contributor to the current malaise.

so you've bought Obama's BS that things like ATM's and self-serve drink machines are to blame for the poor economy and high unemployment?

why am I not surprised to see you parroting everything Obama says?

 

[gsvol]

so you've bought Obama's BS that things like ATM's and self-serve drink machines are to blame for the poor economy and high unemployment?

why am I not surprised to see you parroting everything Obama says?

Why do you dwell on LG's socialist talking points?

Saul Alinsky tactic:

1) Define the 'CHANGE' (Gun control)
2) Fabricate the excuse for gun control (F&F guns run amok)
3) Implement gun control (on FFL's in U.S.)

1) Define the 'CHANGE' (Kill conventional oil drilling industry)
2) Fabricate the excuse to ban drilling (BP oil rig disaster)
3) Implement oil drilling moratoriums (Obama revokes licenses, falsifies committee reports, denies new permits, issues oil drilling moratoriums)

 

[gsvol]

Threat of Fast and Furious pay back claims DOJ ally of Eric Holder « « Coach is RightCoach is Right

The man who assured Senator Charles Grassley that no “gunwalking” had taken place during Operation Fast and Furious has just resigned from the Department of Justice. “The allegation…that ATF ‘sanctioned’ or otherwise knowingly allowed the sale of assault weapons to a straw purchaser who then transported them to Mexico—is false,” wrote Assistant Attorney General Ron Weich in his now infamous February 4th, 2011 letter to congress.

Nine months later the DOJ retracted that letter, advising congress it contained “inaccuracies.”

It was just 48 hours after news that a Contempt of Congress charge against Attorney General Eric Holder would be put to a House vote that Weich decided to end his Department of Justice career.

Confirmed by a 2009 Senate vote to his post in the Office of Legislative Affairs, Weich is the first of Barack Obama’s Main Justice, political appointees to resign as a probable result of Fast and Furious involvement.

But the Department’s Fast and Furious straw boss and cover-up technician is still at large.

Last week, Eric Holder asked to meet with Congressman Darrell Issa prior to Wednesday’s Contempt vote in the House. Still claiming that Weich’s denials of ATF misdeeds were the result of misinformation foisted on the Department by Phoenix, US Attorney Dennis Burke, Holder advised Issa that he is “…prepared to provide documents that, while outside the scope of the [House] Committee’s interest in the inappropriate tactics used in Fast and Furious, are responsive to how the Department’s understanding of the facts regarding the matter evolved throughout 2011…”

Of course like everything else the Attorney General has assured congress of over the past two decades, it was a lie.
-------------------------

Eric Holder is a twenty year cancer on the Republic, his calculated disregard for law and justice evidence of a wholesale contempt for the people of the United States and abiding belief in his own divine privilege. God willing, in Darrell Issa he has finally met a man determined enough to put him away.

 

[gsvol]

 

[VolsNSkinsFan]

NRA pressure could push some Dems to vote contempt for Holder – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

Some gun rights advocates, including the NRA, maintain that the program that allowed hundreds of weapons, including assault rifles, to go across the border into Mexico was a way for the Obama Administration to press for new gun control laws. Oversight Chairman Darrell Issa said on Sunday he had emails showing the administration planned to point to the operation and push for a “weapons ban or greater reporting.”

 

[lawgator1]

NRA pressure could push some Dems to vote contempt for Holder – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

NRA attention whoring itt.

 

[utvolpj]

how so? Not too long ago we were being told we needed tougher guns regs because of all the US guns that ended up in Mexico arming the cartels. Of course at that time no one let us know that they were more than likely provided by the US govt. This is a complete scam that unfortunately ended up costing a US agent his life.

Surely your desire to see the gun owner punished when their firearm is used in a crime applies to Holder as well.

 

[NEO]

how so? Not too long ago we were being told we needed tougher guns regs because of all the US guns that ended up in Mexico arming the cartels. Of course at that time no one let us know that they were more than likely provided by the US govt. This is a complete scam that unfortunately ended up costing a US agent his life.

Surely your desire to see the gun owner punished when their firearm is used in a crime applies to Holder as well.

You made a very good point here.

 

[gsvol]

Holder did not kill anyone.

Holder did facilitate the transfer of weapons to criminals who did kill a lot of people.

When you facilitate a crime you are subject to the same penalties as those who committed the crimes.

Ask ACLG about that, he claims to understand the law and you and he seem to be of the same opinion so very often.

Get back to me when you two work it out.

As far as I'm concerned, Eric Holder is personally responsible for the killing of Eilan Gonzalez.

NRA pressure could push some Dems to vote contempt for Holder – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

CNN has lost nearly 50% of it's viewers in the last year.

CNN has about 25% of the viewers that FOX has.

CNN has become mostly irrevelent.

CNN is a socialist anti-second amendent propaganda outlet.

how so? Not too long ago we were being told we needed tougher guns regs because of all the US guns that ended up in Mexico arming the cartels. Of course at that time no one let us know that they were more than likely provided by the US govt. This is a complete scam that unfortunately ended up costing a US agent his life.

Surely your desire to see the gun owner punished when their firearm is used in a crime applies to Holder as well.

Don't forget Zapata, and his betrayal by someone in the higest levels of our current governing regime.

Zapata was assassinated, plain and simple.

NEOCON
You made a very good point here.

 

[PuntBamaPunt]

The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal - Fortune Features

 

[hndog609]

how so? Not too long ago we were being told we needed tougher guns regs because of all the US guns that ended up in Mexico arming the cartels. Of course at that time no one let us know that they were more than likely provided by the US govt. This is a complete scam that unfortunately ended up costing a US agent his life.

Surely your desire to see the gun owner punished when their firearm is used in a crime applies to Holder as well.

I'd lobbed that one at LG before. His reply was, basically, "Well, that's different."

 

[lawgator1]

Surely your desire to see the gun owner punished when their firearm is used in a crime applies to Holder as well.

Will respond to this since others seem to think it analogous to earlier conversations.

IF the system were such that people that irresponsibly store guns could be held liable for their foreseeable misuse, and IF there were no exception for government here, and IF the federal government waived sovereign immunity for such claims, then yes the DOJ could be sued by the Estate of Terry.

To get there, you'd have to agree to a whole lot that the GOP and the far right would never, ever, ever, go for.

 

[Weezy]

Surely your desire to see the gun owner punished when their firearm is used in a crime applies to Holder as well.

Does this go the other direction as well?

For the NRA crowd, what's the fuss, the guns don't kill people?

For the lib crowd, this should be a big deal, supplying weapons?

 

[hndog609]

Will respond to this since others seem to think it analogous to earlier conversations.

IF the system were such that people that irresponsibly store guns could be held liable for their foreseeable misuse, and IF there were no exception for government here, and IF the federal government waived sovereign immunity for such claims, then yes the DOJ could be sued by the Estate of Terry.

To get there, you'd have to agree to a whole lot that the GOP and the far right would never, ever, ever, go for.

You're whiffing again on what I've previously said and what PJ (from his phrasing) is getting at:

Surely your desire to see the gun owner punished when their firearm is used in a crime applies to Holder as well.

Screw the legal nuances. Are you saying you can't make a comparison to F&F and what you consider to be "foreseeable misuse" by civilians and their (in your view) "irresponsibly stored" weapons? In the latter case at least somebody has to steal the weapons in question.

Straight question; do you consider it reasonable that Holder et al and their tactics with F&F meet YOUR criteria for "foreseeable misuse" of weapons under their oversight? If not, please explain. If so, setting aside whatever legal crap would have to be involved, why would you be so nonplussed about F&F?

 

[lawgator1]

You're whiffing again on what I've previously said and what PJ (from his phrasing) is getting at:



Screw the legal nuances. Are you saying you can't make a comparison to F&F and what you consider to be "foreseeable misuse" by civilians and their (in your view) "irresponsibly stored" weapons? In the latter case at least somebody has to steal the weapons in question.

Straight question; do you consider it reasonable that Holder et al and their tactics with F&F meet YOUR criteria for "foreseeable misuse" of weapons under their oversight? If not, please explain. If so, setting aside whatever legal crap would have to be involved, why would you be so nonplussed about F&F?

I can't agree that allowing the weapons to continue on their path to Mexico so that they can be tracked and the sources of the guns here in the US held accountable criminally equates to the scenarios we have discussed earlier. I see some fundamental differences there.

I mean, you can argue that its bad policy because it creates the opportunity for the guns to be used to harm someone, that the effort to identify the sources of the illegal guns here in the US is not worth the risk. Holder has agreed with that.