Senators set to vote on bill to codify Supreme Court’s same-sex marriage protections

#751
#751
LouderVol said:
Maybe parents shouldn't rely on the television and internet to raise their kids. Parents not being correctly involved in their children's lives is the heart of about half of this nations issues. We cant legislate our way out of that issue.
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It goes way beyond TV and internet, but they certainly haven't helped. Kids are away at school several hours a day and exposed to peer pressure that parents have a very hard time overcoming. That limits what control you have over you own kids; because while kids can be themselves at home, they have to be trendy (whatever the term is these days) at school. Years ago we actually had discipline in schools that minimized some of it - not now. Smart phones probably were the complete tipping point - probably the overall dumbest "advancement" man has yet accomplished. Ask any parent over the age of 60 about how dumb they became when the kids went off to college ... and how much of their intelligence came back when the kids wound up in the world on their own. It's all about peers and how kids deal with them.
 
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#752
#752
AM64 said:
It goes way beyond TV and internet, but they certainly haven't helped. Kids are away at school several hours a day and exposed to peer pressure that parents have a very hard time overcoming. That limits what control you have over you own kids; because while kids can be themselves at home, they have to be trendy (whatever the term is these days) at school. Years ago we actually had discipline in schools that minimized some of it - not now. Smart phones probably were the complete tipping point - probably the overall dumbest "advancement" man has yet accomplished. Ask any parent over the age of 60 about how dumb they became when the kids went off to college ... and how much of their intelligence came back when the kids wound up in the world on their own. It's all about peers and how kids deal with them.
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Which comes back to parents teaching them. Best advice I ever got, "Do you want to be a good John Smith, or a great LouderVol?" If the parents arent involved yeah the peer pressure to be trendy is going to change kids.

If parents were involved they could teach their kids about peer pressure, help them understand or overcome specific problems. Help the kids know who they really are, explain they dont have to fit in perfectly, teach them why they should be proud to be whoever they are and not need the crowd's approval.

Kids are still kids, they will listen and pay attention to their parents. But when their parents ignore the kids, or spend all their own time doing whatever, what does that tell the kid? They arent important, they arent special, so it makes sense these kids end up seeking approval from their peers because they dont get it from home.

Every. Single. Beef. You. Have. With. Kids. Starts. With. The. Parents. It's not a generational thing. Plenty of good kids out there that you would be proud of, started at home.

We need better parents, and then we will see better kids. Focusing on the kids is focusing on the symptoms but not the cause. Fix the cause and the symptoms will largely go away.
 
#755
#755
volgr said:
The depopulation agenda seems to be coming along nicely.
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Funny how just a few short years ago the far right was worried about overpopulation, now they have swung back the other way. What Qatari style of punishment do you have in mind to remedy this?
 
#756
#756
zeppelin128 said:
Funny how just a few short years ago the far right was worried about overpopulation, now they have swung back the other way. What Qatari style of punishment do you have in mind to remedy this?
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That is a very interesting perspective. From what I understand, the far right are the people that believe that every beating human heart deserves to live. The far left believes the killing of live born children (aka abortion survivors) is just fine. So, if you don't mind, please explain your assertion within the realm of reality.
 
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#757
#757
Tman44 said:
That is a very interesting perspective. From what I understand, the far right are the people that believe that every beating human heart deserves to live. The far left believes the killing of live born children (aka abortion survivors) is just fine. So, if you don't mind, please explain your assertion within the realm of reality.
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This is the dumbest ****ing thing I've read tonight, and that is saying a lot.
 
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#761
#761
zeppelin128 said:
You aren't worth having a discussion with. I'm not even far left, but they don't believe in killing of live children.
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Ignorant people never want to discuss things with people that are informed. So, just to educate you, that is EXACTLY what they advocate for. Here is the definition. If you don't believe me, you may be smart enough to google it yourself.

par·tial-birth a·bor·tion

noun
  1. a late-term abortion of a fetus that has already died, or is killed before being completely removed from the mother.

    Get your facts straight before you go popping off at people. You won't look stupid next time.

 
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#762
#762
Tman44 said:
Ignorant people never want to discuss things with people that are informed. So, just to educate you, that is EXACTLY what they advocate for. Here is the definition. If you don't believe me, you may be smart enough to google it yourself.

par·tial-birth a·bor·tion

noun
  1. a late-term abortion of a fetus that has already died, or is killed before being completely removed from the mother.

    Get your facts straight before you go popping off at people. You won't look stupid next time.
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Can you provide an example of any policy maker, lobbyist group, or just a prominent person advocating for abortions as a desirable good, as opposed to protecting the individual’s option to make a personal choice about whether or not to have an abortion being the thing that is desired?

That doesn’t seem to be the position of normal people. It’s not Zeppelin’s position, from what I gather. What evidence is there to support this claim?

https://f.hubspotusercontent40.net/hubfs/2077093/Content Offers/AAS Research Report/Research Report_How Americans Understand Abortion.pdf?__hstc=246422427.bebef915ab0752358e228540994816f7.1670598456379.1670598456379.1670598456379.1&__hssc=246422427.1.1670598456379&__hsfp=2927943020&hsCtaTracking=42c4a036-ecac-4883-abac-1f44f79b47c2|0f7049fb-43e3-41af-8e1a-94f97d25d45c

“A team of five sociologists led by Tricia C. Bruce, PhD, conducted 217 in-depth interviews across six states (California, Colorado, Indiana, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, and Tennessee) between March and August 2019. The political and demographic characteristics of the interview sample approximate diversity across the US adult population overall. Interviewees were selected via a random address-based mailing combined with targeted recruitment to balance quotas. “
“None of the Americans we interviewed talked about abortion as a desirable good.”
 
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#763
#763
Tman44 said:
Ignorant people never want to discuss things with people that are informed. So, just to educate you, that is EXACTLY what they advocate for. Here is the definition. If you don't believe me, you may be smart enough to google it yourself.

par·tial-birth a·bor·tion

noun
  1. a late-term abortion of a fetus that has already died, or is killed before being completely removed from the mother.

    Get your facts straight before you go popping off at people. You won't look stupid next time.
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When the life of the mother is at risk, yes we are well aware of partial birth abortion. In the extremely rare case that occurs, yes we support supporting the mother and not letting her die on the table. I'm not sure anyone has advocated for any different, except for you being just fine with women dying, since you want to "pop" off at folks.
 
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#764
#764
RockyTop85 said:
Can you provide an example of any policy maker, lobbyist group, or just a prominent person advocating for abortions as a desirable good, as opposed to protecting the individual’s option to make a personal choice about whether or not to have an abortion being the thing that is desired?

That doesn’t seem to be the position of normal people. It’s not Zeppelin’s position, from what I gather. What evidence is there to support this claim?

https://f.hubspotusercontent40.net/hubfs/2077093/Content Offers/AAS Research Report/Research Report_How Americans Understand Abortion.pdf?__hstc=246422427.bebef915ab0752358e228540994816f7.1670598456379.1670598456379.1670598456379.1&__hssc=246422427.1.1670598456379&__hsfp=2927943020&hsCtaTracking=42c4a036-ecac-4883-abac-1f44f79b47c2|0f7049fb-43e3-41af-8e1a-94f97d25d45c

“A team of five sociologists led by Tricia C. Bruce, PhD, conducted 217 in-depth interviews across six states (California, Colorado, Indiana, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, and Tennessee) between March and August 2019. The political and demographic characteristics of the interview sample approximate diversity across the US adult population overall. Interviewees were selected via a random address-based mailing combined with targeted recruitment to balance quotas. “
“None of the Americans we interviewed talked about abortion as a desirable good.”
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There’s definitely those that have supported and pushed for abortion up to the time of birth and even after. That should tell you enough.
 
#765
#765
C-south said:
There’s definitely those that have supported and pushed for abortion up to the time of birth and even after. That should tell you enough.
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So they’re advocating for late term abortions as a desirable good? The abortion itself. They actually want more late term abortions. Not just that we keep government out of the way and trust people to make hard personal decisions responsibly?
 
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#766
#766
RockyTop85 said:
So they’re advocating for late term abortions as a desirable good? The abortion itself. They actually want more late term abortions. Not just that we keep government out of the way and trust people to make hard personal decisions responsibly?
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I mean if only they could make those hard personal decisions responsibly beforehand. I’m not a fan of abortion but in certain extreme cases I’m not against it.
 
#767
#767
Somewhere Lindsey Graham is in a closet crying tears of joy. One day he can now marry his true love
 
#768
#768
RockyTop85 said:
Can you provide an example of any policy maker, lobbyist group, or just a prominent person advocating for abortions as a desirable good, as opposed to protecting the individual’s option to make a personal choice about whether or not to have an abortion being the thing that is desired?

That doesn’t seem to be the position of normal people. It’s not Zeppelin’s position, from what I gather. What evidence is there to support this claim?

https://f.hubspotusercontent40.net/hubfs/2077093/Content Offers/AAS Research Report/Research Report_How Americans Understand Abortion.pdf?__hstc=246422427.bebef915ab0752358e228540994816f7.1670598456379.1670598456379.1670598456379.1&__hssc=246422427.1.1670598456379&__hsfp=2927943020&hsCtaTracking=42c4a036-ecac-4883-abac-1f44f79b47c2|0f7049fb-43e3-41af-8e1a-94f97d25d45c

“A team of five sociologists led by Tricia C. Bruce, PhD, conducted 217 in-depth interviews across six states (California, Colorado, Indiana, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, and Tennessee) between March and August 2019. The political and demographic characteristics of the interview sample approximate diversity across the US adult population overall. Interviewees were selected via a random address-based mailing combined with targeted recruitment to balance quotas. “
“None of the Americans we interviewed talked about abortion as a desirable good.”
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Bro you must not be on twitter. There is a large contingent of sick people celebrating that they have gotten abortions before or want to get one, like it's some great humanitarian act. It's sick.

New York abortion bill reveals liberal leaders' celebration of death
 
#769
#769
C-south said:
I mean if only they could make those hard personal decisions responsibly beforehand. I’m not a fan of abortion but in certain extreme cases I’m not against it.
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They doesn’t answer my question.

Who is out there impregnating themselves or their partner so that they can get joy from killing their child?
 
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#772
#772
theFallGuy said:
Bro you must not be on twitter. There is a swath of sick people celebrating that they have gotten abortions before or want to get one, like it's some great humanitarian act. It's sick.

New York abortion bill reveals liberal leaders' celebration of death
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I’ll assume you’re right about Twitter… these people are insufficiently numerous to merit political pandering, or am I just overlooking that?

I read your link to the opinion article. It seems to be largely the same fundamental fallacy that I think OP made. It’s presenting lawmakers celebrating a law that takes government out of the equation as celebrating abortion.

I’m not particularly in favor of a constitutional right to abortion (although I am in favor of unenumerated rights) and I think abortion as contraception is immoral. But I don’t see how conservatives can make an argument that supporting legality for some action means supporting the action. That seems inconsistent, at best.

We have active threads about discriminatory business practices where “conservatives” are making the argument that it should be legal. I think they only want it to be legal when it’s somebody else being discriminated against, but I take them at their word that they don’t want to discriminate against others.

It seems like cheap fallacy to reduce the argument for legalized abortion to “they want to kill babies” and it’s the type of fallacy that conservatives rightly cry about when it is done to them.
 
#774
#774
RockyTop85 said:
.

It seems like cheap fallacy to reduce the argument for legalized abortion to “they want to kill babies” and it’s the type of fallacy that conservatives rightly cry about when it is done to them.
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Like abortion is a women's right issue type of cheap fallacy?
 
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