Serrano comments on whether this was his last home series at Tennessee

#51
#51
Baseball is much too complicated to say it's either the schools fault or the coaches fault. In fact i completely agree with KR that this is an extremely difficult job and I don't blame the school for that.
 
#52
#52
Bigun said:
Same here. Is really well liked by players and administrators but he also realizes that winning is what matters.

Even when he is let go (contract not renewed) he will land somewhere and do a good job. For all the talk of football being tough in the SEC, baseball is just as if not a tougher job to rebuild.
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Rebuilding Tennessee baseball is different than rebuilding Tennessee Football. It is much harder, but it can be done! If Kentucky can win at baseball, so can UT! If Vandy can win in BB so can UT! Serrano for whatever reason has not been able to do it. I thought he was an excellent hire. But, I think it is time to move on! It is time for us to stop being "Farragut University!" We need to recruit, recruit, recruit, and we need a coach who can do that! I'm not saying that we should be the top of the heap in the SEC every year. That's not realistic, but we should be battling for the East, and at least be respectable, every year!
 
#53
#53
LA vol7 said:
Rebuilding Tennessee baseball is different than rebuilding Tennessee Football. It is much harder, but it can be done! If Kentucky can win at baseball, so can UT! If Vandy can win in BB so can UT! Serrano for whatever reason has not been able to do it. I thought he was an excellent hire. But, I think it is time to move on! It is time for us to stop being "Farragut University!" We need to recruit, recruit, recruit, and we need a coach who can do that! I'm not saying that we should be the top of the heap in the SEC every year. That's not realistic, but we should be battling for the East, and at least be respectable, every year!
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Kentucky has been one of the most unsuccessful programs in the SEC

I think it is reasonable to expect their success but let's not act like they are anywhere close to an elite program
 
#54
#54
BruinVol said:
Kentucky has been one of the most unsuccessful programs in the SEC

I think it is reasonable to expect their success but let's not act like they are anywhere close to an elite program
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They are the only team in the SEC to never go to the CWS. We are tied for 12th in the conference with 4.
 
#57
#57
BruinVol said:
Baseball is much too complicated to say it's either the schools fault or the coaches fault. In fact i completely agree with KR that this is an extremely difficult job and I don't blame the school for that.
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I didn't see it posted, but later in that Twitter conversation, KR said if we go the alumni route it will be Burke, not Helton.
 
#60
#60
billmynatt said:
Todd hasn't finished his undergraduate degree work. Not going to happen, or at least this point.
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Just curious, but how many MLB all-stars or hall of famers have turned out to be good college coaches? I can't think of one.
 
#62
#62
orangeluvr said:
He hasn't been offered the HC either.
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And the point is that without at least an undergrad degree he won't be, no matter if he were a candidate or not. UT isn't going to hire a coach in any sport without at least an undergraduate degree.

Do you remember the issue when Serrano was hired about his degree being from an online college and not a resident university? That almost cost him the UT job itself.

Having successfully earned a degree is pretty important when it comes to being hired at a major university. #Sarcasm
 
#63
#63
The fact that Burke is not actually coaching baseball is a bigger hurdle than his degree situation. If he wanted to be a coach he needs to be coaching. It would be hard to justify hiring a guy with absolutely no coaching experience.
 
#64
#64
vol66 said:
The fact that Burke is not actually coaching baseball is a bigger hurdle than his degree situation. If he wanted to be a coach he needs to be coaching. It would be hard to justify hiring a guy with absolutely no coaching experience.
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My reply was referencing Helton, not Burke. I believe - but not 100% sure - that Burke finished his degree work at UofL when he was helping there after he retired from MLB.

Burke played at the highest level of baseball for 6 years, he is involved with the ESPN family of networks (which includes the SEC Network) and has a ton of contacts throughout the nation with the college baseball world, and he has been involved with the "Diamond Baseball of Louisville" for quite some time now and has high school and major summer program ties. I don't see anything wrong with hiring somebody with those credentials, and especially given that he played in the UT program and has stayed close to it over the past few years. It's not like he would be coming in blind.
 
#65
#65
billmynatt said:
My reply was referencing Helton, not Burke. I believe - but not 100% sure - that Burke finished his degree work at UofL when he was helping there after he retired from MLB.

Burke played at the highest level of baseball for 6 years, he is involved with the ESPN family of networks (which includes the SEC Network) and has a ton of contacts throughout the nation with the college baseball world, and he has been involved with the "Diamond Baseball of Louisville" for quite some time now and has high school and major summer program ties. I don't see anything wrong with hiring somebody with those credentials, and especially given that he played in the UT program and has stayed close to it over the past few years. It's not like he would be coming in blind.
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I don't know whether he would do a good job or not, that's not really the point either. It's well known he wanted the job last time. If he wanted to make it easier on the administration he should have gotten on with Louisville or even a smaller school as an assistant and built a resume for the last five years.

Again, maybe he'd be great but he's asking folks to take a big risk...and here's the other thing...are people going to be calling for his head if he fails, wanting to pull his VFL membership and how do we feel about having to turn on one of our own. Look at Holly. Chuck Smith. Turned on Tee Martin and all he did was interview and decline.
 
#66
#66
vol66 said:
I don't know whether he would do a good job or not, that's not really the point either. It's well known he wanted the job last time. If he wanted to make it easier on the administration he should have gotten on with Louisville or even a smaller school as an assistant and built a resume for the last five years.

Again, maybe he'd be great but he's asking folks to take a big risk...and here's the other thing...are people going to be calling for his head if he fails, wanting to pull his VFL membership and how do we feel about having to turn on one of our own. Look at Holly. Chuck Smith. Turned on Tee Martin and all he did was interview and decline.
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Tee did a little more than just interview and decline.

Smith refused to comply with Derek Dooley's directive, and even though he was a terrible head coach and a weasel, Dooley was still his boss. Try dissing your boss in staff meetings and see how long you last.

As for Holly, the fact is that she followed a bonafide legend, and even though the program had started to decline before she took it over, she certainly has underachieved in her tenure thus far. Like the saying goes, you don't want to be the one to follow the legend, but the one who follows the one who followed the legend.

I'm not advocating for Burke one way or the other. I simply don't see his lack of coaching experience being as big a negative as some do. Maybe it's time to do something different. Hiring experienced proved head coaches the last couple of times hasn't work out so well.
 
#67
#67
BruinVol said:
Tough to watch

Good man and good coach that has made some mistakes

Would love to see a good west coast job come open in the next two weeks and him bolt before the axe falls here
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This is what makes the situation even more difficult. Serrano is a good coach that has had success elsewhere and will succeed elsewhere after he leaves Tennessee. He wanted to come here when no one else wanted to touch the job and would have stayed forever had he been able to turn it around.

So you're going to fire someone who has been successful and will be successful again to take a chance on someone else that has a 50-50 (at best, IMO) chance of being successful.

As had been said earlier in this thread, Serrano's downfall was sticking with (and failing with) small ball. Playing small ball got his first and second teams in some games they had no business being in. Not transitioning into a traditional offense as he built up the talent was a critical error. A good friend of mine that has worked directly with the program, though not on the coaching staff, told me that if Dave had replaced Bergy with Simcox before last season, they would have been a super regional team at worst with all the offensive talent they had combined with average pitching. I tend to agree with that. With AJ, Stewart and the other guys that immediately made waves in rookie ball combined with Senzel, Hall and Jackson that have blossomed even further this year under Simcox, they would have really had something.

Last season's team hit .263 and drove in 204 runs, scoring 229 in total. Thus far this year, with less talent, they're hitting .288 with 277 RBI and 314 total runs. Would have loved to have seen what Simcox could have done with last year's talent on offense.

But, ultimately, decisions like that fall on the head coach. It appears that UT is going to go in a different direction and even though I don't like that, I very much understand it.
 
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#68
#68
billmynatt said:
Tee did a little more than just interview and decline.

Smith refused to comply with Derek Dooley's directive, and even though he was a terrible head coach and a weasel, Dooley was still his boss. Try dissing your boss in staff meetings and see how long you last.

As for Holly, the fact is that she followed a bonafide legend, and even though the program had started to decline before she took it over, she certainly has underachieved in her tenure thus far. Like the saying goes, you don't want to be the one to follow the legend, but the one who follows the one who followed the legend.

I'm not advocating for Burke one way or the other. I simply don't see his lack of coaching experience being as big a negative as some do. Maybe it's time to do something different. Hiring experienced proved head coaches the last couple of times hasn't work out so well.
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Where the experience comes in is the process, if a guy like Leggett is interested in the job and you compare both guys, one is much less of a risk in terms of running a program.

Now if your talking about some guy that's hot right now who's been to one NCAA in four years and might be on the verge of it this year in a mid major conference and that's the best you can do and Burke wants it...that might be the time "to try something different

I'm not going to argue, even successful coaches like Fulmer and Majors got turned on by a portion of the fanbase...in other words, it almost always ends badly, because all things come to an end at some point.
 
#69
#69
DeerPark12 said:
This is what makes the situation even more difficult. Serrano is a good coach that has had success elsewhere and will succeed elsewhere after he leaves Tennessee. He wanted to come here when no one else wanted to touch the job and would have stayed forever had he been able to turn it around.

So you're going to fire someone who has been successful and will be successful again to take a chance on someone else that has a 50-50 (at best, IMO) chance of being successful.

As had been said earlier in this thread, Serrano's downfall was sticking with (and failing with) small ball. Playing small ball got his first and second teams in some games they had no business being in. Not transitioning into a traditional offense as he built up the talent was a critical error. A good friend of mine that has worked directly with the program, though not on the coaching staff, told me that if Dave had replaced Bergy with Simcox before last season, they would have been a super regional team at worst with all the offensive talent they had combined with average pitching. I tend to agree with that. With AJ, Stewart and the other guys that immediately made waves in rookie ball combined with Senzel, Hall and Jackson that have blossomed even further this year under Simcox, they would have really had something.

Last season's team hit .263 and drove in 204 runs, scoring 229 in total. Thus far this year, with less talent, they're hitting .288 with 277 RBI and 314 total runs. Would have loved to have seen what Simcox could have done with last year's talent on offense.

But, ultimately, decisions like that fall on the head coach. It appears that UT is going to go in a different direction and even though I don't like that, I very much understand it.
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I think two other reasons, one has to do with recruiting, the other with his pitching philosophy. Fixing the offense with Simcox is great and I agree with you that had this been done a year earlier things might have turned out differently. But, we really haven't had the pitching to compete, I mean talent. You have to have it and we haven't had nearly enough of it during his tenure. He says he's not a strike out coach, but if you look at the standings and look at teams with most strike outs there is a strong correlation in the SEC.
 
#70
#70
vol66 said:
Where the experience comes in is the process, if a guy like Leggett is interested in the job and you compare both guys, one is much less of a risk in terms of running a program.

Now if your talking about some guy that's hot right now who's been to one NCAA in four years and might be on the verge of it this year in a mid major conference and that's the best you can do and Burke wants it...that might be the time "to try something different

I'm not going to argue, even successful coaches like Fulmer and Majors got turned on by a portion of the fanbase...in other words, it almost always ends badly, because all things come to an end at some point.
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Again, I don't disagree with you there. Leggett has a world of experience and if he can recruit to and win big at a place that is out in the middle of nowhere as is Clemson, it says a lot about him.

And I don't think 62 is too old, either. He's got some good years left in him, and especially if he could surround himself with a couple of energetic go getter recruiting types as his assistants.

And the bottom line at an SEC school in any sport is to just win. Doesn't matter if one is an alum or not. Don't win, don't last.
 
#71
#71
billmynatt said:
Again, I don't disagree with you there. Leggett has a world of experience and if he can recruit to and win big at a place that is out in the middle of nowhere as is Clemson, it says a lot about him.

And I don't think 62 is too old, either. He's got some good years left in him, and especially if he could surround himself with a couple of energetic go getter recruiting types as his assistants.

And the bottom line at an SEC school in any sport is to just win. Doesn't matter if one is an alum or not. Don't win, don't last.
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Clemson Is much much easier to recruit to than tenn

It really isn't close
 
#72
#72
DeerPark12 said:
So you're going to fire someone who has been successful and will be successful again to take a chance on someone else that has a 50-50 (at best, IMO) chance of being successful.
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For the purposes of this decision, it doesn't matter if he was successful somewhere else, and it doesn't matter if he will be successful somewhere else in the future.

What matters is whether he can be successful at UT in the reasonably foreseeable future.

Recruiting commitments from 2017 and 2018 high school graduates give an even more emphatic negative answer to this question than the current on-field performance.

I posted earlier about how our 2017 recruiting is lagging behind the other SEC teams we're jostling with for the last conference tournament spot this year.

2018 is shaping up even worse. Perfect Game has us with only two 2018 recruits. Neither of them is a pitcher.

Vanderbilt has 16, and 15 of them are ranked higher than both of our recruits. Five of them are pitchers.

After five years on the job, I would expect our outyears to be in progressively better shape, but the opposite seems to be the case.

Do you think he can succeed here reasonably soon? If so, what is the basis for your belief that he can in light of a conference record worse than Raleigh's and a deteriorating recruiting forecast?
 
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#73
#73
BruinVol said:
Clemson Is much much easier to recruit to than tenn

It really isn't close
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That's because Leggett did a good job there following a legendary type of coach in Bill Wilhelm. I have a good understanding of that program. I played against them when I was in college and played summer baseball with a couple of their players at the time, as well.

Point is that Clemson is pretty much in the middle of nowhere. Have you ever driven there?
 
#74
#74
ShowmeVols said:
For the purposes of this decision, it doesn't matter if he was successful somewhere else, and it doesn't matter if he will be successful somewhere else in the future.

What matters is whether he can be successful at UT in the reasonably foreseeable future.

Recruiting commitments from 2017 and 2018 high school graduates give an even more emphatic negative answer to this question than the current on-field performance.

I posted earlier about how our 2017 recruiting is lagging behind the other SEC teams we're jostling with for the last conference tournament spot this year.

2018 is shaping up even worse. Perfect Game has us with only two 2018 recruits. Neither of them is a pitcher.

Vanderbilt has 16, and 15 of them are ranked higher than both of our recruits. Five of them are pitchers.

After five years on the job, I would expect our outyears to be in progressively better shape, but the opposite seems to be the case.

Do you think he can succeed here reasonably soon? If so, what is the basis for your belief that he can in light of a conference record worse than Raleigh's and a deteriorating recruiting forecast?
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Yep. Keep hearing about what a great resume Serrano has, and it was good coming in to UT. But, the last 5 years of that resume count, too, and those 5 years don't look so good.

Bottom line - either you give Serrano a 4 or 5 year contract or you move on. Short term extensions won't do either he or the program any good.
 
#75
#75
billmynatt said:
Again, I don't disagree with you there. Leggett has a world of experience and if he can recruit to and win big at a place that is out in the middle of nowhere as is Clemson, it says a lot about him.

And I don't think 62 is too old, either. He's got some good years left in him, and especially if he could surround himself with a couple of energetic go getter recruiting types as his assistants.

And the bottom line at an SEC school in any sport is to just win. Doesn't matter if one is an alum or not. Don't win, don't last.
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I was just using Leggett as an example. It could be a number of guys.

Agree with your last point, that's why I'm not a fan of hiring a guy simply because he's an alum and played a professional sport.
 
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