Shipping US LNG vs Russian Pipeline LNG to Europe

#101
#101
Rasputin_Vol said:
I do address their stupidity. This entire thread is about the poor decisionmaking going on. I've also talked about the rapacious arrangement they have created where you now have American energy companies doing everything they can to take advantage of the situation.
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Just like Gazprom is trying to do.
 
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#102
#102
hog88 said:
Just like Gazprom is trying to do.
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Gazprom is trying to get them to renew the same deal they had before it expired at far lower prices than what they are paying now... in addition to adding more capacity with Nordstream 2. But instead, the Europeans are choosing to pay spot price.

How is that Gazprom's fault?
 
#103
#103
Rasputin_Vol said:
Gazprom is trying to get them to renew the same deal they had before it expired at far lower prices than what they are paying now... in addition to adding more capacity with Nordstream 2. But instead, the Europeans are choosing to pay spot price.

How is that Gazprom's fault?
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Come on Raz, you can't be serious in thinking Gazprom doesn't have some serious strings attached.
 
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#106
#106
hog88 said:
I don't know but I can't believe they are lowering the price out of the goodness of their hearts.
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Really? It's not kindness. It is simple economics. They had a deal with Gazprom before it recently expired that was at a far lower rate than what they are paying on the spot market right now. In the case of Germany, they even provided Germany roughly 10% more than what was agreed to in the contract. Germany ended up hoarding that excess gas and sold it once prices started to spike. So if anything, Gazprom went above and beyond the agreed upon terms. Also, they are willing to renew the expired agreement with the same or close to similar terms with Europe to get them out of this death spiral they are in.

Some of you people still have thos Cold War mentality and still have this "us vs them" mind set. They are no where as bad as you all believe. And outside is no where near as benelevent as you would tend to believe.
 
#107
#107
Rasputin_Vol said:
Really? It's not kindness. It is simple economics. They had a deal with Gazprom before it recently expired that was at a far lower rate than what they are paying on the spot market right now. In the case of Germany, they even provided Germany roughly 10% more than what was agreed to in the contract. Germany ended up hoarding that excess gas and sold it once prices started to spike. So if anything, Gazprom went above and beyond the agreed upon terms. Also, they are willing to renew the expired agreement with the same or close to similar terms with Europe to get them out of this death spiral they are in.

Some of you people still have thos Cold War mentality and still have this "us vs them" mind set. They are no where as bad as you all believe. And outside is no where near as benelevent as you would tend to believe.
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Come on Ras, Russia/Putin isn't offering that deal to "help".
 
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#108
#108
Rasputin_Vol said:
Really? It's not kindness. It is simple economics. They had a deal with Gazprom before it recently expired that was at a far lower rate than what they are paying on the spot market right now. In the case of Germany, they even provided Germany roughly 10% more than what was agreed to in the contract. Germany ended up hoarding that excess gas and sold it once prices started to spike. So if anything, Gazprom went above and beyond the agreed upon terms. Also, they are willing to renew the expired agreement with the same or close to similar terms with Europe to get them out of this death spiral they are in.

Some of you people still have thos Cold War mentality and still have this "us vs them" mind set. They are no where as bad as you all believe. And outside is no where near as benelevent as you would tend to believe.
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I don't have an us vs them mindset. I figure Europe has a reason for stupid energy policies.
Why do I care if European countries decide to not buy gas from a Russian corporation which is majority owned by a NY bank?
 
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#112
#112
hog88 said:
Come on Ras, Russia/Putin isn't offering that deal to "help".
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It's the same deal (or close to it) that they had before. And that deal is far cheaper than what they have right now.

How is it benefiting Gazprom to sell gas to Europe on a long term contract at cheaper rates than what Gazprom could sell to them right now on the spot market?

None of you geniuses can answer me that.
 
#113
#113
McDad said:
I don't have an us vs them mindset. I figure Europe has a reason for stupid energy policies.
Why do I care if European countries decide to not buy gas from a Russian corporation which is majority owned by a NY bank?
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Because our foreign policy is tied in with all of this.
 
#114
#114
Rasputin_Vol said:
It's the same deal (or close to it) that they had before. And that deal is far cheaper than what they have right now.

How is it benefiting Gazprom to sell gas to Europe on a long term contract at cheaper rates than what Gazprom could sell to them right now on the spot market?

None of you geniuses can answer me that.
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Kinda makes you wonder doesn't it?
 
#115
#115
Rasputin_Vol said:
It's the same deal (or close to it) that they had before. And that deal is far cheaper than what they have right now.

How is it benefiting Gazprom to sell gas to Europe on a long term contract at cheaper rates than what Gazprom could sell to them right now on the spot market?

None of you geniuses can answer me that.
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I don't know, I haven't read the contract.

How does it help the Russian people to sell LG below market price?
 
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#117
#117
hog88 said:
I don't know, I haven't read the contract.

How does it help the Russian people to sell LG below market price?
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Gazprom doesn't directly help the Russian people either way.

For Gazprom the company, you lock in a stable customer and you even out the spikes in price that may occur over time. Both sides of the deal benefit on long term contract.
 
#118
#118
Rasputin_Vol said:
Gazprom doesn't directly help the Russian people either way.

For Gazprom the company, you lock in a stable customer and you even out the spikes in price that may occur over time. Both sides of the deal benefit on long term contract.
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The devil is always in the details and neither you nor I know the details and that's why I'm skeptical.
 
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#119
#119
hog88 said:
The devil is always in the details and neither you nor I know the details and that's why I'm skeptical.
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I would like to know I what scenario it what universe would it be better to buy at spot right now than to enter into a long term contract... the same or similar contract that you just had before.

The only reason to not do it is if there are other reasons outside of business or economics that would be driving your decision. Sanctions being one example...
 
#120
#120
Rasputin_Vol said:
I would like to know I what scenario it what universe would it be better to buy at spot right now than to enter into a long term contract... the same or similar contract that you just had before.

The only reason to not do it is if there are other reasons outside of business or economics that would be driving your decision. Sanctions being one example...
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I don't know but we also have no idea what the agreement says.
 
#122
#122
hog88 said:
I don't know but we also have no idea what the agreement says.
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Putin spoke about this a few days ago and no one has come out to dispute or fact check it yet. That means the terms of the contract were just as Putin had stated... Including the revelation that they sold roughly 10% more to Germany than what was agreed to.
 
#123
#123
Rasputin_Vol said:
Putin spoke about this a few days ago and no one has come out to dispute or fact check it yet. That means the terms of the contract were just as Putin had stated... Including the revelation that they sold roughly 10% more to Germany than what was agreed to.
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Want to know how to tell id Putin is lying, watch for him to open his mouth. Same with our "leaders".
 
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