So can we revisit the Butch Davis hissy fit yet? (merged)

#76
#76
GmanTN said:
There has always been enough talent surrounding the Miami area and the state of Florida to field great teams. Davis capitalized on the in state talent with Coach O on his staff. Once Davis was no longer in FL the grind has become much harder for him. His 3rd season at UNC is proof of that.
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Since he inherited such a great program. Do you doubt his recruiting abilities?

Let the record show that I love Kiffin, and never complained about the hire.
 
#77
#77
VolinConcord said:
Gruden is good X and O coach, but I cannot see him on the recruiting trail or working a booster ***tion. The idea on paper is great but in application, he would have not been a good hire, IMO.
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Yeah, when they were talking Gruden that was my main concern as well.
 
#78
#78
Good points on Gruden.

Prolly wouldn't want Lombardi either if he was still alive. He was pretty much constrained to the NFL and couldn't cut it in college ball.
 
#79
#79
GmanTN said:
There has always been enough talent surrounding the Miami area and the state of Florida to field great teams. Davis capitalized on the in state talent with Coach O on his staff. Once Davis was no longer in FL the grind has become much harder for him. His 3rd season at UNC is proof of that.
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UNC should still be getting better talent than they are with a coach like Butch Davis, in theory.
 
#82
#82
I will admitt my first choice was Brian Kelly from the bearcats. Still think he and turner Gill are the 2 best coaches in NCAA lower level coaches.
 
#83
#83
Sjernigan88 said:
I will admitt my first choice was Brian Kelly from the bearcats. Still think he and turner Gill are the 2 best coaches in NCAA lower level coaches.
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Turner Gill is killing his next level job status this season. His AD isn't helping matters.
 
#84
#84
3L with debt said:
I was one of those guys who thought that CBD would have been a great hire... and I still do.
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But the argument wasn't that Davis would merely have been a good hire; it was that Davis was a sure thing, a Proven Winner, and that Hamilton had essentially commuted malpractice by failing to bring him to Knoxville. The constant comparison was to Alabama going after Saban until he said yes.

But if Davis really was such a Sure Thing, why is he 0-3 in the ACC in his third year? Would Saban be 0-3 in conference right now if he were in his third year at UNC?
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#87
#87
VolinConcord said:
Gruden is good X and O coach, but I cannot see him on the recruiting trail or working a booster ***tion. The idea on paper is great but in application, he would have not been a good hire, IMO.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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Gruden would be an excellent recruiter, unless he smiply did not try at all.
 
#88
#88
GmanTN said:
There has always been enough talent surrounding the Miami area and the state of Florida to field great teams. Davis capitalized on the in state talent with Coach O on his staff. Once Davis was no longer in FL the grind has become much harder for him. His 3rd season at UNC is proof of that.
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You're making it seem like being in Florida automatically makes all the recruits come. It's easier, but Davis was still an outstanding recruiter. Urban Meyer is in Florida, he has had all the success in the world, but he could still never hope to put together a team like Davis did.
 
#91
#91
Vercingetorix said:
But the argument wasn't that Davis would merely have been a good hire; it was that Davis was a sure thing, a Proven Winner, and that Hamilton had essentially commuted malpractice by failing to bring him to Knoxville. The constant comparison was to Alabama going after Saban until he said yes.

But if Davis really was such a Sure Thing, why is he 0-3 in the ACC in his third year? Would Saban be 0-3 in conference right now if he were in his third year at UNC?
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I did make statements similar to this one but I never equated CBD and CNS as being equal. It was more of my belief that MH should go after the best coach available.

No, I don't think that CNS would be 0-3 in the ACC but I do believe that CBD would have won the UCLA and AUburn games this season if he were the coach. But these are questions that will never be answered/resolved. I AM NOT A 5150 but I do believe that CBD would have a better SEC/Overall record than what CLK has produced so far this year. CLK is still learning on the job and that lack of experience will (has) cost games. I firmly believe that this is a reasonable observation. Will he get better? With-out-a-doubt!
 
#92
#92
tvolsfan said:
You're making it seem like being in Florida automatically makes all the recruits come. It's easier, but Davis was still an outstanding recruiter. Urban Meyer is in Florida, he has had all the success in the world, but he could still never hope to put together a team like Davis did.
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2 NC's the past 3 yrs for Meyer and a possibility for a 3rd this year has already surpassed what Davis did at Miami. It pained me to write that about Meyer, but your boy Butch is not all that. At one time Bobby Bowden owned Florida recruits, the shift went to the Gators and now it is switching some towards the U. I have seen nothing outside of his Hurricane record that points toward greatness. Heck his 3rd year at the U he went 5-6
 
#93
#93
tvolsfan said:
Why is it a myth?
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It's not like they shut down. They lost 31 scholarships over 3 years (UT's probably lost that many players through in-season attrition). They had one bad season. And they were a talent powerhouse before Davis got there and they never really missed a beat until Coker ran the talent down.
 
#95
#95
GmanTN said:
2 NC's the past 3 yrs for Meyer and a possibility for a 3rd this year has already surpassed what Davis did at Miami. It pained me to write that about Meyer, but your boy Butch is not all that. At one time Bobby Bowden owned Florida recruits, the shift went to the Gators and now it is switching some towards the U. I have seen nothing outside of his Hurricane record that points toward greatness. Heck his 3rd year at the U he went 5-6
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If Davis stayed in Miami, The Canes would have still won in 2001, and they would probably have won in 2002, with probably one or two more since then. Meyer has accomplished more. He could still never dream of recruiting a team like the 2001 Miami team.

I'd take a slow start with Davis if it means we put together a dominant program 5 or 6 years win. And I'm not trying to say UNC will be outstanding in a few years.
 
#96
#96
UT IE 95 said:
It's not like they shut down. They lost 31 scholarships over 3 years (UT's probably lost that many players through in-season attrition). They had one bad season. And they were a talent powerhouse before Davis got there and they never really missed a beat until Coker ran the talent down.
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They were a sold program, but never like they were in 2001.
 
#97
#97
tvolsfan said:
What are you basing that on?
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I base that on the fact that Gruden has proven to be very impatient and ran down NFL players (and the Bucs organization) on a consistent basis. Good college kids would tune Gruden out in 10 seconds based on that very fact.
 
#99
#99
tvolsfan said:
I think showing recruits his super bowl ring would make them forget about other problems.
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I tend to disagree with that analysis. The fact that Gruden only had three winning seasons in the six years following the Super Bowl and ZERO playoff wins in that timeframe suggests that those problems that you call inconsequential were actually quite a big deal.
 
#100
#100
3L with debt said:
I did make statements similar to this one but I never equated CBD and CNS as being equal. It was more of my belief that MH should go after the best coach available.

No, I don't think that CNS would be 0-3 in the ACC but I do believe that CBD would have won the UCLA and AUburn games this season if he were the coach. But these are questions that will never be answered/resolved. I AM NOT A 5150 but I do believe that CBD would have a better SEC/Overall record than what CLK has produced so far this year. CLK is still learning on the job and that lack of experience will (has) cost games. I firmly believe that this is a reasonable observation. Will he get better? With-out-a-doubt!
Click to expand...

Davis just lost to Virginia in his third year at UNC. What makes you think he would have beaten UCLA and Auburn in his second and fifth games at UT?
 
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