So -- Why does healthcare cost so damn much? (warning: novel-length post)

#201
#201
utvolpj said:
why not? Who forces you to eat at this family-style restaurant? Is there not another that will accept your money and protect you from smoke?
Click to expand...

So, making a minority hold the power over the majority is the way to go here, right?? Only around 46 million US adults smoke, and that's roughly 20+% of the US Adult population. So, telling the majority to screw off is the right action here??
 
#202
#202
g8terh8ter_eric said:
So, now paying for an education, somehow trumps people who do it a lot cheaper?? Knowledge is knowledge, no matter how you get it. There are plenty of people who go to the best institutions this country has to offer, yet they are still dumb as bricks in the common sense department. You get out what you put in, no matter where you go.
Click to expand...

and it would take much longer to learn. How much is that worth?
 
#203
#203
g8terh8ter_eric said:
So, now paying for an education, somehow trumps people who do it a lot cheaper?? Knowledge is knowledge, no matter how you get it. There are plenty of people who go to the best institutions this country has to offer, yet they are still dumb as bricks in the common sense department. You get out what you put in, no matter where you go.
Click to expand...

There aren't self-help books for everything out there. It doesn't matter how much work you're willing to put in, formal training is just a necessity for some skill sets.
 
#204
#204
g8terh8ter_eric said:
So, making a minority hold the power over the majority is the way to go here, right?? Only around 46 million US adults smoke, and that's roughly 20+% of the US Adult population. So, telling the majority to screw off is the right action here??
Click to expand...

if the minority is really pissed about it they wont go to said restuarants and said restuarants will go out of business or have to ban smoking. i assume you don't go to restuarants that serve food you don't like. same theory.
 
#205
#205
g8terh8ter_eric said:
So, making a minority hold the power over the majority is the way to go here, right?? Only around 46 million US adults smoke, and that's roughly 20+% of the US Adult population. So, telling the majority to screw off is the right action here??
Click to expand...

no one is being discriminated against if the places of business are making the decision. They make the choice and you just decide where to spend your dollar
 
#206
#206
droski said:
even though i strongly disagree that you can learn as much at home as in an university lost in your argument is how the employer is supposed to determine who the better employee potentially is. going to an elite school and doing well seperates you from your peers. and yes on average that person is harder working and smarter i.e. a high achiever. raw intelligence doesn't mean squat if you don't do anythingn with it.
Click to expand...

We need more common sense in this country right now, versus more book smarts. Most any person you put material in front of, can learn it in the right setting, yet a surprisingly large group of American's can't even balance their check books correctly. To be honest though, I would be interesting to document how two different people with the same degrees from different colleges or if they are self-taught, do in the same environment or job. That's the only way to see if what I believe is accurate, and it would be interesting to watch.
 
#207
#207
utvolpj said:
and it would take much longer to learn. How much is that worth?
Click to expand...

How do you know it would take longer to learn?? I took a 2 year class in 3 months, and I got to work at my own pace, and scored in the top of my class. If things were work at your own pace for some people, if would honestly make things better.
 
#208
#208
kptvol said:
There aren't self-help books for everything out there. It doesn't matter how much work you're willing to put in, formal training is just a necessity for some skill sets.
Click to expand...

Obviously docs can't just start operating on cadavers at home and be ready to do surgery in a few months, and I understand why. I do feel that our medical school process is too drawn out, and causes a lot of possible good docs to drop out because of the lengthy process. There should be a way to make that process more efficient.
 
#210
#210
g8terh8ter_eric said:
How do you know it would take longer to learn?? I took a 2 year class in 3 months, and I got to work at my own pace, and scored in the top of my class. If things were work at your own pace for some people, if would honestly make things better.
Click to expand...

You consider the possibility that the course taught over a full semester is probably a lot better and more informative?
 
#211
#211
g8terh8ter_eric said:
We need more common sense in this country right now, versus more book smarts. Most any person you put material in front of, can learn it in the right setting, yet a surprisingly large group of American's can't even balance their check books correctly. To be honest though, I would be interesting to document how two different people with the same degrees from different colleges or if they are self-taught, do in the same environment or job. That's the only way to see if what I believe is accurate, and it would be interesting to watch.
Click to expand...

so what do you suggest companies do? just hire any person off the street just because they might be just as good as a wharton grad? isn't what one has accomplished in life prior to said position relavant?
 
#212
#212
g8terh8ter_eric said:
Obviously docs can't just start operating on cadavers at home and be ready to do surgery in a few months, and I understand why. I do feel that our medical school process is too drawn out, and causes a lot of possible good docs to drop out because of the lengthy process. There should be a way to make that process more efficient.
Click to expand...

Oh boy.

:popcorn:
 
#213
#213
droski said:
if the minority is really pissed about it they wont go to said restuarants and said restuarants will go out of business or have to ban smoking. i assume you don't go to restuarants that serve food you don't like. same theory.
Click to expand...

You know what's funny about the whole free market theory in this particular conversation, the simple fact that smokers still go to restaurants in my area, and smoking isn't allowing in those same restaurants. I know plenty of smokers that now prefer to go outside now, after smelling the before and after of the restaurants they went to for years. Most of my friends don't smoke in their house.
 
#214
#214
g8terh8ter_eric said:
I do feel that our medical school process is too drawn out, and causes a lot of possible good docs to drop out because of the lengthy process.
Click to expand...

what are you basing this on? You can have the 1 semester doc and I'll prefer the one with some real information and training. Plus I don't want one making life/death decisions that thought 3 years was way too long to commit to something
 
#215
#215
g8terh8ter_eric said:
I do feel that our medical school process is too drawn out, and causes a lot of possible good docs to drop out because of the lengthy process. There should be a way to make that process more efficient.
Click to expand...

You feel incorrectly. Most of the people that drop out do so because they don't want to put in the work. The folks that fail out are either in the same boat, or just flat out aren't smart enough. Interestingly enough, a huge portion of those guys had excellent GPAs at smaller schools, but middle of the pack to lower entrance exam scores.
 
#216
#216
utvolpj said:
teach yourself all day long and I'll still take the CS major who just graduated. They have more proof of having learned
Click to expand...

So, creating debt because you went to school proves beyond a reasonable doubt that people learn more who spend more?? If that's true, then the same should be for our school systems, and if you spend more on the school system or pupil, they should learn more. Oh wait.
 
#217
#217
g8terh8ter_eric said:
You know what's funny about the whole free market theory in this particular conversation, the simple fact that smokers still go to restaurants in my area, and smoking isn't allowing in those same restaurants. I know plenty of smokers that now prefer to go outside now, after smelling the before and after of the restaurants they went to for years. Most of my friends don't smoke in their house.
Click to expand...

if you banned beef at restuarants a certain percentage of people would still go to. not sure that's relavant.
 
#218
#218
g8terh8ter_eric said:
So, creating debt because you went to school proves beyond a reasonable doubt that people learn more who spend more?? If that's true, then the same should be for our school systems, and if you spend more on the school system or pupil, they should learn more. Oh wait.
Click to expand...

it's not about money it's about education. You're really hung up on this $$ thing
 
#219
#219
g8terh8ter_eric said:
So, creating debt because you went to school proves beyond a reasonable doubt that people learn more who spend more?? If that's true, then the same should be for our school systems, and if you spend more on the school system or pupil, they should learn more. Oh wait.
Click to expand...

i don't think he's arguing that the cost is the factor of quality. more that you are more likely to learn more from 1000 hours of clasroom time compared to 50.
 
#220
#220
g8terh8ter_eric said:
So, creating debt because you went to school proves beyond a reasonable doubt that people learn more who spend more?? If that's true, then the same should be for our school systems, and if you spend more on the school system or pupil, they should learn more. Oh wait.
Click to expand...

And if they made the effort same debt would be paid off in 2-3 years tops.

I work with several doctors. Because they may not have a lick of financial sense (and most don't) doesn't mean they are not brilliant at what they do.
 
#222
#222
kptvol said:
You feel incorrectly. Most of the people that drop out do so because they don't want to put in the work. The folks that fail out are either in the same boat, or just flat out aren't smart enough. Interestingly enough, a huge portion of those guys had excellent GPAs at smaller schools, but middle of the pack to lower entrance exam scores.
Click to expand...

Some people just learn differently though. For some, they gather knowledge from just doing the type of work, versus sitting in huge classrooms listening to a boring ass professor. People are different, and holding everyone to one particular standard in education, seems counterproductive to me.
 
#223
#223
g8terh8ter_eric said:
Some people just learn differently though. For some, they gather knowledge from just doing the type of work, versus sitting in huge classrooms listening to a boring ass professor. People are different, and holding everyone to one particular standard in education, seems counterproductive to me.
Click to expand...

seems to me that those people then could read the textbook and still get great grades at the same university no?
 
#224
#224
g8terh8ter_eric said:
Some people just learn differently though. For some, they gather knowledge from just doing the type of work, versus sitting in huge classrooms listening to a boring ass professor. People are different, and holding everyone to one particular standard in education, seems counterproductive to me.
Click to expand...

So you are implying that we should allow doctors to learn off the bat by the OJT principle if they are more inclined to learn by being hands on?
 
#225
#225
Formal education is a bit overrated. If you have a specific vocation like accounting then it's a fine system, but if you are going into psychology so that you can do sales or something like that, I think you might be better off with self-education (if you are serious about learning).

This is ignoring the fact that employers like college degrees. Personally, when I hire (manager, not owner), only specific degrees mean something.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top