Socialism Fails Everytime ...

#276
#276
hog88 said:
I'm sure there is a study out there somewhere to back it up that we don't receive more treatment than anyone else.
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Not like you would read it. And in any case, it wouldn’t change the point. We pay more for the same ****.
 
#280
#280
hog88 said:
Used to have a similar plan and it worked for our family, about all we could afford at the time.
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I loved the plan. It worked perfectly. I exceeded the deductible once (in january) Wasn't a damn thing I didn't get done that year. Included dental.
 
#281
#281
ClearwaterVol said:
I loved the plan. It worked perfectly. I exceeded the deductible once (in january) Wasn't a damn thing I didn't get done that year. Included dental.
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We did it once when my wife broke her leg and had her gallbladder removed all in the same year.
 
#283
#283
hog88 said:
We did it once when my wife broke her leg and had her gallbladder removed all in the same year.
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To me it was just nice to know exactly what I'd pay and pay it first and then be done. None of the 80/20 crap or worrying about whether a particular doctor at a preferred hospital was in network.
 
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#285
#285
ClearwaterVol said:
To me it was just nice to know exactly what I'd pay and pay it first and then be done. None of the 80/20 crap or worrying about whether a particular doctor at a preferred hospital was in network.
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Yep. That initial hit sucked but we managed.
 
#286
#286
luthervol said:
You may wish to reconsider the point you think you are making. I think someone who holds the most powerful job in the world for 8 years should be worth millions for the rest of their lives. Look at CEO that get fired and receive a $20 million severance package. lol
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As long as they’re all taxed at 70% right?
 
#291
#291
ClearwaterVol said:
Either way will work. Cost of healthcare would plummet under a cash only system with providers having the right to refuse service. Personally, I don't think America has the stomach for it though.
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Cash only is what I have been doing for the last 7 or 8 years. I go to a cash only clinic. I have Medicare, a Medicare supplement policy, plus the Medicare drug thing, but never use any of them. I have the gap policy in case of a catastrophic illness.
 
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#292
#292
tvolsfan said:
1. There are fat people everywhere.
2. It just isn’t the reason for the high costs. It’s not that we need more treatment than everyone else. It’s that we spend more on the same treatment.
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Not every country has the sheer percentage of drug addicted and overweight trash as we have.
 
#294
#294
1972 Grad said:
Cash only is what I have been doing for the last 7 or 8 years. I go to a cash only clinic. I have Medicare, a Medicare supplement policy, plus the Medicare drug thing, but never use any of them. I have the gap policy in case of a catastrophic illness.
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What a lot of people do not know is that sometimes, if you pay cash price at a pharmacy, it is sometimes less that what one's co-pay is for the same med if they ran it through one's insurance.
 
#295
#295
tumscalcium said:
How much will it cost each person for this and what services will be provided?

Will this affect pay for doctors, nurses, specialists, techs, etc? How will this influence research and medical supplies/equipment?

Why do you put all of your faith in the government to run a program involving 330m people and their lives? Why do you put 100% of your support in the government to decide what’s best for you?
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OK, you're going to need to define your metric for success. No point in chasing this rabbit without it.

You stated "excessively more cost for excessively less coverage", the source I cited clearly dispels that as a myth. I for one would gladly pay 2.5x less and let some other countries start doing more heavy lifting in terms of R&D.
 
#296
#296
hog88 said:
Yep. That initial hit sucked but we managed.
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I broke my tibeal plateau in Vail a few years ago on Dec 31st. As painful as that was it want as bad as realizing that I'd have to suffer my max out of pocket deductible the day before it reset. To be fair, Vail Valley Medical Center is first rate, they don't see many indigents there.
 
#298
#298
Septic said:
I broke my tibeal plateau in Vail a few years ago on Dec 31st. As painful as that was it want as bad as realizing that I'd have to suffer my max out of pocket deductible the day before it reset. To be fair, Vail Valley Medical Center is first rate, they don't see many indigents there.
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We were lucky if you can call it that. My wife had her gallbladder surgery at the end of January then shattered both the bones in her ankle in March. So she had 4 surgeries in 1 year.
 
#299
#299
Mick said:
You want to make a distinction that Medicare is insurance though technically correct it is a social safety net tax. I pay it but can't use it so it's not insurance to me. Just like the swiss people, they pay a general tax. From this tax they ensure that all citizens have health insurance through subsidies. The people that don't need a subsidy don't get it but they still have to pay the general tax rate that provides the subsidies to others.
This is done on an individual basis as is the US system and has a governing body that determines such needs.

You know what makes it work for them is the individual mandate for private insurance that has a high level of participation from individuals. Every Cantons (states) participates as well.

These two thing (individual mandate, and state participation) is what makes it work for them. Those two thing give Republicans nightmares all the while healthcare and insurance cost are on the rise in those states that didn't expand Medicare.

There's not a country on earth that wants our system. Not even us. The only point that needs to be made is our system sucks as is. You want to tout our innovation and great quality of care as a reason ours is better, you need to look no further than the life expectancy of the populations. We pay more and get less. That's great from a business perspective but not the individual or society.
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Some corrections.

1. Medicare is indeed health insurance. You are prepaying it via the payroll tax. The Swiss do not pay a specific tax for insurance and more importantly, the government is not the health insurance provider.

2. I did not claim ours were better. WRT to innovation I was pointing out that the private sector (both in the US and in other countries) is crucial to translating basic research findings into innovations that actually get put into use (to counter Luther's claim that the profit motive is bad for HC). Even in Canada (true single payer) or the UK (socialized medicine) the private sector is the primary source of medical innovation.

3. Our life expectancy data is skewed by our high murder rate relative to some other OECD countries. Control for murder (which clearly impacts life expectancy) and we are right at the top with others.

4. I'd argue Switzerland has less "state participation" than the US given the lack of Swiss equivalents of Medicare and Medicaid. Using taxes to pay for care AND providing insurance is more "state participation" (the US) than just using taxes.

5. Since you want to complain that Republicans wouldn't go for "X" or "Y" I'll counter that Dems wouldn't go for the Swiss system since it lessens government provision of insurance and the minimum coverage requirements (what all people must have) are less comprehensive than the ACA "Essential Benefits" requirements. They also allow a robust country-wide private insurance system whereas ACA allowed for much less differentiation between providers. As I began with, the Swiss system has more market-based provision of health insurance than the US. I doubt many Dems would accept that.

I'd be fine if we adopted the Swiss system as is and would prefer it immensely to the current Medicare for all crap being pushed by the D party.
 
#300
#300
volinbham said:
Some corrections.

1. Medicare is indeed health insurance. You are prepaying it via the payroll tax. The Swiss do not pay a specific tax for insurance and more importantly, the government is not the health insurance provider.

2. I did not claim ours were better. WRT to innovation I was pointing out that the private sector (both in the US and in other countries) is crucial to translating basic research findings into innovations that actually get put into use (to counter Luther's claim that the profit motive is bad for HC). Even in Canada (true single payer) or the UK (socialized medicine) the private sector is the primary source of medical innovation.

3. Our life expectancy data is skewed by our high murder rate relative to some other OECD countries. Control for murder (which clearly impacts life expectancy) and we are right at the top with others.

4. I'd argue Switzerland has less "state participation" than the US given the lack of Swiss equivalents of Medicare and Medicaid. Using taxes to pay for care AND providing insurance is more "state participation" (the US) than just using taxes.

5. Since you want to complain that Republicans wouldn't go for "X" or "Y" I'll counter that Dems wouldn't go for the Swiss system since it lessens government provision of insurance and the minimum coverage requirements (what all people must have) are less comprehensive than the ACA "Essential Benefits" requirements. They also allow a robust country-wide private insurance system whereas ACA allowed for much less differentiation between providers. As I began with, the Swiss system has more market-based provision of health insurance than the US. I doubt many Dems would accept that.

I'd be fine if we adopted the Swiss system as is and would prefer it immensely to the current Medicare for all crap being pushed by the D party.
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I'm sold.
 
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