Socialism Fails Everytime ...

#227
#227
0nelilreb said:
That’s a brave stance .. so we either go capitalism or socialism ?
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Either way will work. Cost of healthcare would plummet under a cash only system with providers having the right to refuse service. Personally, I don't think America has the stomach for it though.
 
#229
#229
luthervol said:
They're equally insurmountable. That's like comparing swimming across the Atlantic with swimming across the Pacific.
A single payer system will be much easier to regulate, oversee, and control. (3 things desperately needed)
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Like the VA?
 
#230
#230
luthervol said:
I see nothing wrong with any of that.
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Of course you don't. You're playing quite coy. I won't waste the time to search out the posts, but I've seen your accusations that Trump is using the office for personal gain. Compartmentalize as needed.
 
#232
#232
luthervol said:
lol.....That's going to be the new "polls are meaningless, look at 2016" ignorance.
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Yes it’s going to be part of the 2020 slogans , he already brought it up in the SOTU ( I believe as a test run ) and it was very well received . Your Dem candidates better have an answer for it too because if they don’t he will drive it into the ground like with a hammer at all the rallies .
 
#233
#233
Orange_Crush said:
Of course you don't. You're playing quite coy. I won't waste the time to search out the posts, but I've seen your accusations that Trump is using the office for personal gain. Compartmentalize as needed.
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I don't remember, but I'll concede your memory is better than mine.
I'll concede that every poster on this board has a better memory than do I.
It obviously depends on how you are profiting.
Renting out a ballroom at your hotel to Ukrainians that usually goes for $12k per day for $15 million would be different than signing a book deal for $2 million.
I'd be good (if there is not one already) with a a bipartisan financial ethics oversight committee that reviews every congressperson's, cabinet member's, president's and his staff's tax returns and financial dealings annually.
 
#234
#234
0nelilreb said:
Yes it’s going to be part of the 2020 slogans , he already brought it up in the SOTU ( I believe as a test run ) and it was very well received . Your Dem candidates better have an answer for it too because if they don’t he will drive it into the ground like with a hammer at all the rallies .
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Undoubtedly, surely the dems have learned not to underestimate the ignorance and gullibility of a vast segment of the voting public. You can see it in full bloom on the PF.
 
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#235
#235
luthervol said:
Undoubtedly, surely the dems have learned not to underestimate the ignorance and gullibility of a vast segment of the voting public. You can see it in full bloom on the PF.
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And yet I see on the PF daily where Dems are doing just that . I don’t see any difference between now and pre 2016 election night . What I see is the same song and dance with weaker presidential candidates that seem hell bent on making the voters choose again between bad and worse .
 
#236
#236
ClearwaterVol said:
I live in an area where we have lots of seasonal visitors. I have never heard someone from another country talk about how they wish they had our healthcare system. Quite the opposite actually. Visitors from the UK are stunned about how politicians have us believing that our healthcare system is the envy of the world and to provide healthcare would be detrimental to our way of life.
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I’ll start believing it’s the envy of the world when all the other countries start scrapping their systems.
 
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#237
#237
0nelilreb said:
And yet I see on the PF daily where Dems are doing just that . I don’t see any difference between now and pre 2016 election night . What I see is the same song and dance with weaker presidential candidates that seem hell bent on making the voters choose again between bad and worse .
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I see we've come full circle.
The electoral college decided that on the date of Nov. 8, 2016 Trump was better for this nation than Clinton. So be it.
If the electoral college decides the 2020 rep. candidate is better than the 2020 dem. candidate, then so be it.
If anyone was ever under the delusion that the Trump fiasco would lead to moderation, it's time they open their eyes.
Trump's legacy, (other than being the worst and most corrupt president in history) will be that he ultimately accelerated the countries leftward movement.
 
#238
#238
luthervol said:
I see we've come full circle.
The electoral college decided that on the date of Nov. 8, 2016 Trump was better for this nation than Clinton. So be it.
If the electoral college decides the 2020 rep. candidate is better than the 2020 dem. candidate, then so be it.
If anyone was ever under the delusion that the Trump fiasco would lead to moderation, it's time they open their eyes.
Trump's legacy, (other than being the worst and most corrupt president in history) will be that he ultimately accelerated the countries leftward movement.
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I agree with the electoral part ( still has to win those states to get them ) what the hard part for the Dems to conceive is the country wasn’t ready for leftward movement , you went all in and came up short . The problem you have in 2020 isn’t that the left wants More left , the candidates are jumping into socialistic ideology that will force the vent of the country ( fly over states ) to choose between what is going well right now ( economy , jobs money in the pockets ) and what will be framed as socialism .
 
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#240
#240
ClearwaterVol said:
Anyone who disagrees with Tums hates America. The argument for the intellectually weak rears its head again.
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You don’t have to agree with me. If you like mayo that doesn’t mean you’re a commie.

His policies that he supports are not the policies that made this the greatest country. Quite the opposite in fact. His policies are detrimental to everyone’s way of life, thus anti-American. Don’t be mad because you’ve never been able to back up your positions.
 
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#241
#241
0nelilreb said:
I agree with the electoral part ( still has to win those states to get them ) what the hard part for the Dems to conceive is the country wasn’t ready for leftward movement , you went all in and came up short . The problem you have in 2020 isn’t that the left wants More left , the candidates are jumping into socialistic ideology that will force the vent of the country ( fly over states ) to choose between what is going well right now ( economy , jobs money in the pockets ) and what will be framed as socialism .
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Clinton in no way represented a big movement left, that would have been Bernie (my preference) and that would have represented going all in.
Repubs. nominated Trump over a field of 17 and then elected him over a more moderate democrat than you will ever see again.
I understand the dynamics of what you are saying, the only possible answer is that the repubs. nominate a moderate when Trump becomes nonviable.
 
#242
#242
Why America Is the Only Rich Country Without Universal Health Care

Thought this was a good article explaining universal healthcare in other countries vs the US. It appears fact driven and not too much bias.

My thought...our government has shown that it is a **** show when trying to run services; see the VA for example. Anyone that served in the military had a first-hand look as to what gov. ran healthcare is like. When I was at Ft. Riley, it was routine to have 7 hour wait times in the ER at night because people could not get into the outpatient clinic for several days. I also noticed less than desirable providers, simply because they could not make it in the real world. We had doctors join the military many times due to inability to make it on the outside. There were good doctors, don't misunderstand; but there were some real ****** ones too. Anyway, I guess we will all find out if we love it within the next 10-15 years, IMO.
 
#243
#243
luthervol said:
Clinton in no way represented a big movement left, that would have been Bernie (my preference) and that would have represented going all in.
Repubs. nominated Trump over a field of 17 and then elected him over a more moderate democrat than you will ever see again.
I understand the dynamics of what you are saying, the only possible answer is that the repubs. nominate a moderate when Trump becomes nonviable.
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If they do that and the left keeps going further left the the Dems will force the country to choose between a conservative R and a Bernie /AOC like candidate . I don’t think the country is willing to go that far left .
 
#244
#244
tumscalcium said:
Socialism will be amazing here because if American exceptionalism?
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Socialism is already amazing here, and always has been. A little more is in order. If it helps you to crawl out from under your rock......capitalism is going to be okay; it's not going anywhere. It's only the balance between the two being tweaked a tad.
 
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#245
#245
0nelilreb said:
If they do that and the left keeps going further left the the Dems will force the country to choose between a conservative R and a Bernie /AOC like candidate . I don’t think the country is willing to go that far left .
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Why not a moderate R? It seems to be moderation that you guys are pushing for.
 
#246
#246
CABVOL said:
Why America Is the Only Rich Country Without Universal Health Care

Thought this was a good article explaining universal healthcare in other countries vs the US. It appears fact driven and not too much bias.

My thought...our government has shown that it is a **** show when trying to run services; see the VA for example. Anyone that served in the military had a first-hand look as to what gov. ran healthcare is like. When I was at Ft. Riley, it was routine to have 7 hour wait times in the ER at night because people could not get into the outpatient clinic for several days. I also noticed less than desirable providers, simply because they could not make it in the real world. We had doctors join the military many times due to inability to make it on the outside. There were good doctors, don't misunderstand; but there were some real ****** ones too. Anyway, I guess we will all find out if we love it within the next 10-15 years, IMO.
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Exactly. Those that are all for it have absolutely zero knowledge of the logistics involved and simply don’t understand what “healthcare” is. They think that with the snap of the fingers everything is fine and free. It’s a childish view.
 
#247
#247
luthervol said:
Socialism is already amazing here, and always has been. A little more is in order. If it helps you to crawl out from under your rock......capitalism is going to be okay; it's not going anywhere. It's only the balance between the two being tweaked a tad.
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Paying excessively more for excessively less is not ideal in any situation. Of course you’ve been a drain on society your entire life, so you don’t know what being worth a crap is like.
 
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#248
#248
0nelilreb said:
I agree with the electoral part ( still has to win those states to get them ) what the hard part for the Dems to conceive is the country wasn’t ready for leftward movement , you went all in and came up short . The problem you have in 2020 isn’t that the left wants More left , the candidates are jumping into socialistic ideology that will force the vent of the country ( fly over states ) to choose between what is going well right now ( economy , jobs money in the pockets ) and what will be framed as socialism .
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Wrong, trump just did a far better job of creating a shady boogyman and conjuring up doubt in his opponents while stepping and fetching around the same bombs being lobbed at him. He duped just enough of the voters in a handful of key states to swing an ec victory. It was an effective strategy and it worked - credit given where credit is due but please just don't pretend it's something it's not.

What does it mean "you went all in"? You think that HRC was as far left as it could have been? Sanders was so far to the left of her he was on her right.
 
#250
#250
luthervol said:
Why not a moderate R? It seems to be moderation that you guys are pushing for.
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I believe there will be one . Not this time but next . Then what ? The Rs will come back towards center but I don’t think the Ds are ready yet and that’s why you will still have a Trump in 2020
 
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