Socialism vs Capitalism

[Wireless1]

I’m still thinking that it’s a statistical anomaly. “Median”. Small populations. Different taxation and social welfare systems. Norway is very rich with all of that North Sea oil.

Not “GDP@ BTW as I’ve been corrected on that. Disposable Income.

Have you been to IKEA? low cost furniture for tiny homes and apartments.

 

[85SugarVol]

Socialism means controlling the means of production, and I think it's originally meant to be direct control (like Venezuela and the oil industry as an extreme example).

Our school system is in fact socialist. The government literally provides the large majority of k-12 education.

And what a bright shining success it is.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

I served with many Mormons and attended PA school with several. Few people do as good of a job or representing the love of Christ. I’m sure there’s some bad apples, but I’ve not met them

They do a much better job of demonstrating love of Joseph Smith

 

[jmacvols1]

Scandinavians are one of the wealthiest groups of people on the planet. The median GDP doesn’t define them. Small populations and the government spends a lot on healthcare and other social programs and not necessarily a lot on defense and interest on their national debt.

They trail WV in disposable income.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

They trail WV in disposable income.

Define disposable income. After taxes and before paying for healthcare? And that chart is median DI. Lots of ways to interpret it. Iceland’s population is less than 400,000. Does disposable income include welfare payments?

 

[Vol8188]

Socialism means controlling the means of production, and I think it's originally meant to be direct control (like Venezuela and the oil industry as an extreme example).

Basically, every western country has a croney capitalist economy with lots of indirect control over certain industries. Obamacare isn't socialist because it's a handout. It's socialist because it's an indirect control over production.

Our school system is in fact socialist. The government literally provides the large majority of k-12 education.

Surprise, Sweden and the US are both a little capitalist and a little socialist

Congrats. There’s no true Scotsman. I’m not sure what you believe you proved here.

 

[LadyVolette]

Scandinavians are one of the wealthiest groups of people on the planet. The median GDP doesn’t define them. Small populations and the government spends a lot on healthcare and other social programs and not necessarily a lot on defense and interest on their national debt.

It is also extremely hard to stay in a Scandinavian country.. even as a tourist.. they want to make sure your a$$ is out you can’t just pop on over like you can to the US, you also have to be able to speak their national languages fluently in a lot of them..they are also doing things on a much smaller scale with a very homogeneous population with a very strong sense of national identity.. the times that I have traveled to Amsterdam/ Netherlands/Switzerland you best believe you will be leaving when you said you were when you entered the country they don’t play.. they make it extremely hard for citizenship, so therefore they can regulate whatever and keep it under control, and as you mentioned, don’t have to spend billions of dollars on defense, but they are still taxed out the a$$.. ain’t nothing free.. and they still have a high cost of living

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Is West Virginia’s disposable income calculation before or after expenditures on meth, crack, and pain pills?

Is the second hand catalytic converter industry free lancer income included?

 

[Orangeburst]

It is also extremely hard to stay in a Scandinavian country.. even as a tourist.. they want to make sure your a$$ is out you can’t just pop on over like you can to the US, you also have to be able to speak their national languages fluently in a lot of them..they are also doing things on a much smaller scale with a very homogeneous population with a very strong sense of national identity.. the times that I have traveled to Amsterdam/ Netherlands/Switzerland you best believe you will be leaving when you said you were when you entered the country they don’t play.. they make it extremely hard for citizenship, so therefore they can regulate whatever and keep it under control, and as you mentioned, don’t have to spend billions of dollars on defense, but they are still taxed out the a$$.. ain’t nothing free.. and they still have a high cost of living

I was just looking at stats. Sweden has 20% immigrant population and even exceeds 14% of the UK. If you are in the EU, you are getting immigrants.

Loading…

www.cnn.com

 

[LadyVolette]

I was just looking at stats. Sweden has 20% immigrant population and even exceeds 14% of the UK. If you are in the EU, you are getting immigrants.

Loading…

www.cnn.com

Whoah, that’s bad.. 20 percent now? Yowza.. I expect their standards of living will not be able to be sustainable and those people are going to get really angry once the feel good moments wear off

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Whoah, that’s bad.. 20 percent now? Yowza.. I expect their standards of living will not be able to be sustainable and those people are going to get really angry once the feel good moments wear off

Most will leave once they find out falafel and hummus are hard to find and they have to go with the lutefisk and moose burgers instead.

 

[LadyVolette]

Most will leave once they find out falafel and hummus are hard to find and they have to go with the lutefisk and moose burgers instead.

a lot has changed since I last traveled to Europe.. it was 2008 the last time I went so that’s my frame of reference..but to me it was like it was yesterday because I’m old now

 

[LadyVolette]

Most will leave once they find out falafel and hummus are hard to find and they have to go with the lutefisk and moose burgers instead.

Double post dang it

 

[Orangeburst]

Whoah, that’s bad.. 20 percent now? Yowza.. I expect their standards of living will not be able to be sustainable and those people are going to get really angry once the feel good moments wear off

especially when the are told to shut the oil off.

 

[jmacvols1]

Define disposable income. After taxes and before paying for healthcare? And that chart is median DI. Lots of ways to interpret it. Iceland’s population is less than 400,000. Does disposable income include welfare payments?

If their disposable income is 30 per cent less than WV then they must be paying ungodly high taxes.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

If their disposable income is 30 per cent less than WV then they must be paying ungodly high taxes.

Iceland is reeeeeeeeeeeally expensive

 

[EasternVol]

Thanks. I read the chart wrong.

I’d like to see how the disposable income is being measured. Are those numbers after taxes? If so are the USA states’ numbers before paying for health insurance while the Nordic country calculations after they pay for their healthcare through taxes.

I find it hard to believe that West Virginia and Mississippi are full of people out-earning the Scandinavians. Something is fishy. Maybe the Americans include welfare in their disposable “income”.

You're right, it's income after taxes so a lot of what's paid by the government in Europe is paid by individuals in the US.

 

[Orangeburst]

Funny how socialists hate capitalism, yet employers pay majority of their HC and match SS.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Funny how socialists hate capitalism, yet employers pay majority of their HC and match SS.

Do away with withholding.

At least Biden's 87,000 IRS agents would have something to do then, because the tax receipts would fall thru the floor. But at least people would know how much tax they are actually being taken for.

 

[Vol737]

a lot has changed since I last traveled to Europe.. it was 2008 the last time I went so that’s my frame of reference..but to me it was like it was yesterday because I’m old now

Hmmm….you sure don’t look old in your avatar. See, look at me…I’m old as dirt, but still out there playing golf and smoking cigars.

 

[marcusluvsvols]

I served with many Mormons and attended PA school with several. Few people do as good of a job or representing the love of Christ. I’m sure there’s some bad apples, but I’ve not met them

They were always extremely kind and respectful people in SLC. Whenever their missionaries come thru our neighborhood (on bikes ofc) we always give them cold drinks and shade. Offer them food etc. Very disciplined people too. Many of them do not even drink caffeine or use tobacco because they consider them drugs like alcohol etc

Yes, we are strange......

Hope I didn't offend you bud. We are definitely strange too, and I am in particular. You and I likely don't see details the same way if You're a Mormon...but I know that we both believe Jesus is Lord. Also know that when it comes to self discipline, focus on their faith, and treating others with kindness...other denominations could learn much from the LDS folks. They are a big part of why Utah is a great place to live.

 

[PEPPERJAX]

They were always extremely kind and respectful people in SLC. Whenever their missionaries come thru our neighborhood (on bikes ofc) we always give them cold drinks and shade. Offer them food etc. Very disciplined people too. Many of them do not even drink caffeine or use tobacco because they consider them drugs like alcohol etc




Hope I didn't offend you bud. We are definitely strange too, and I am in particular. You and I likely don't see details the same way if You're a Mormon...but I know that we both believe Jesus is Lord. Also know that when it comes to self discipline, focus on their faith, and treating others with kindness...other denominations could learn much from the LDS folks. They are a big part of why Utah is a great place to live.

It’s all good brother.

 

[marcusluvsvols]

Whoah, that’s bad.. 20 percent now? Yowza.. I expect their standards of living will not be able to be sustainable and those people are going to get really angry once the feel good moments wear off

There have been several articles posted over the years about all the migrants raping Swedish girls (among other countries) in the Migrants/Europe thread. I think the "honeymoon" period has longsince worn off in most of those nations. The formerly homogeneous populations are quite pissed in many cases...but unlike here in the US they dont have the 1A or 2A so they cannot say or do much about it. Most of those countries have "no go zones" taken over by migrants where even ambulances will not enter those neighborhoods until a police escort shows up because they have been attacked so many times. So crazy.

The EU just absolutely wrecked Western Europe. It is mind blowing. Might go down as 1 of the worst ideas in history. The Leftist Globalists figured out the fastest way to destroy Europe and the politicians shoved the union right down the people's throats. Seems the Europe you saw in 2008 no longer exists

 

[GroverCleveland]

Socialism means controlling the means of production, and I think it's originally meant to be direct control (like Venezuela and the oil industry as an extreme example).

Basically, every western country has a croney capitalist economy with lots of indirect control over certain industries. Obamacare isn't socialist because it's a handout. It's socialist because it's an indirect control over production.

Our school system is in fact socialist. The government literally provides the large majority of k-12 education.

Surprise, Sweden and the US are both a little capitalist and a little socialist

Not so fast on the Obamacare and school system pronouncements.

Doesn’t Obamacare have a government requirement to have health insurance or pay a tax. Legally speaking, either participate or break the law, right?

WRT school systems, a certain level of education is required which might be considered socialist if really stretching things, but government schooling is not required per se. One may choose to send their children to private or home school, but until the government forces public school attendance or face legal consequences, it is still a (rough) free market system.

 

[EasternVol]

Socialism means controlling the means of production, and I think it's originally meant to be direct control (like Venezuela and the oil industry as an extreme example).

Basically, every western country has a croney capitalist economy with lots of indirect control over certain industries. Obamacare isn't socialist because it's a handout. It's socialist because it's an indirect control over production.

Our school system is in fact socialist. The government literally provides the large majority of k-12 education.

Surprise, Sweden and the US are both a little capitalist and a little socialist

Education's not a means of production though, except as a stretch private schools, so public education's not socialist.