Some of you people just don't get it

#102
#102
daj2576 said:
Interesting points, but I am confused. With all of that experience he (Saban) could only take a team to 6-6 his first year at Bama, losing the last 4 of the season, including an embarrassment to La-Monroe?

I am not an expert in NFL football, but I believe Saban's time at the Dolphins would be a time that most would want to leave off of their resume'. From what I can see, Saban's only relevant experience is his time at MSU, LSU and then Bama and even that couldn't help him do much more than Jones is doing here.

I don't like comparing the two, but I think if you believe that Saban was a once in a lifetime hire, and THAT is all he could do his first year, that Jones should get even more slack.

Maybe I am wrong
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I would add the experience as Brown's DC relevant, i.e Belichick HC during that time. Good coach to model organizational skills and effective leadership.
Anyway, I agree that it isn't good to compare the two. I just would like to get back to SEC champs before 2020.
 
#103
#103
Since we are comparing CBJ's first season here to CNS's first year at Bama does that mean we win a National Championship next year?
 
#106
#106
KBVol said:
You're right, we're all a bunch of idiots. I, like most other Vols fans, clearly had us pegged to win the SEC ... 12-1 after the SEC championship blowout win vs Bama. My expectations were just a little too high I guess.

I clearly should've expected 4 blowout losses of biblical proportions vs the best teams on our schedule.... should've known the cumulative score would be in the 190-50 range, avg score in the 47-12 neighborhood.

How did I not see the 778 all purpose yards from Auburn on the horizon, the NCAA record 44.5 yds per special teams return given up this week, the school record 444 rushing yds given up, the 16 offensive Pts vs Auburn, the 3 Pts vs Mizzou.... You're absolutely right.... some of "us people" are just idiots. Should've checked with you cause you, in all your glorious condescension would've surely set us all straight.
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This....... Is awesome! !
 
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#107
#107
KingtUT said:
they do have a lot more speed though



Were rushing for over 4 yds a carry with average RB's and no passing attack, id say they're doing pretty good



Your reaching real hard to try and make BJ look bad and not mentioning the fact that hes won multiple championships at each level he's coached is only making you look bad.

I will agree that the coaches can improve as long as you can agree that having better players will automatically make this staff better.
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CBJ took over teams that had already been reestablished by Brian Kelly and continued on the success that Kelly had started. And actually CBJ did not do as well at Cincy as Kelly did.
 
#108
#108
soda23 said:
Saban was also competitive in every game they played. Never lost by more than 7
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I bet that felt great losing to La-Monroe. That is like saying that if UT lost to USA by 1 that it was a competitive game.

I don't get the argument that people make that "keeping it close" is better. Especially if you lose to a team that you shouldn't have.

It's still a loss, and will forever be infinitely far from a win.

If you don't count moral victories (UT v. UGA) then a big loss is nothing more than a bad feeling, a loss is a loss. Binary.
 
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#111
#111
daj2576 said:
I bet that felt great losing to La-Monroe. That is like saying that if UT lost to USA by 1 that it was a competitive game.

I don't get the argument that people make that "keeping it close" is better. Especially if you lose to a team that you shouldn't have.

It's still a loss, and will forever be infinitely far from a win.

If you don't count moral victories (UT v. UGA) then a big loss is nothing more than a bad feeling, a loss is a loss. Binary.
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It is a way to gauge if you are getting better or building on prior successes. Getting blown out is worse because it means the team is worse. Better play is better.
 
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#112
#112
I would rather get beat by 28-21 ..instead of 59-14 ,45-10 , 31-3 or 55-23 any day , but you're right a loss is a loss just like 4-6 is 4-6,
 
#113
#113
ReelfootVol said:
Dooley let Jim Chaney get his job by keeping him as OC. Hope Butch Jones does not let Jancek cost him his job. Just sayin.........
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If Fulmer could have found a Chaney, when we still had the Chief he would still be coaching UT. Or if Dooley could have found a Chavis last year he would still be the coach here.
 
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#115
#115
Gandalf said:
Missouri was 5-7 last year and it took them 4OT to beat us - have you checked their win count this year? think its the same team?
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Pinkle has been at Mizzou for 13 years. He knows his personnel and knew what adjustments to make to get to this point. Plus he scheduled 4 opening cupcakes to give his team some early confidence. I actually think Mizzou was in awe early last year playing in the SEC for the 1st time...they lost early and lost their confidence. Butch has been here less than a year with a team that is not his and quite frankly many of them will not be here next year...he gets a pass next year as well...now after that I think we have to see results. I coached basketball in this state(Memphis) and talked to several hs football coaches in that city...they LOVE Butch. He recruited down there when he was at Cincy. I had one coach tell me he was the most dynamic coach they had ever met and that included Saban. On the other hand they said Dooley was an arrogant,distant person who never darkend the door of their schools. He never invited them to his camps nor any of their players.Actually some of the folks here are an embarrassment...and I am wondering if they are not posting from the confines of some state mental health facility.
 
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#116
#116
I don't think Ive ever read a post saying we should be 8-2 or 9-1...spare us THAT HAVE BALLZ AND DEMAND MORE from this staff and program the drama!! OP you are just one of the many soft fans we have. MAN UP! We're tired of waiting around...its been 4 yrs of misery! All we want to see if SOME KIND of improvement from week to week...NOT TO GET WORSE! Quit coddling this team and staff...they deserve the damn criticism!
 
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#117
#117
What is it about this fanbase that if you are not happy, criticize, put down, finger-point, etc and express it you are crucified and not a REAL FAN? lol Is it a bible belt thing or what?! Fans up North and Midwest are much tougher on their teams in my opinion.
 
#118
#118
KBVol said:
You're right, we're all a bunch of idiots. I, like most other Vols fans, clearly had us pegged to win the SEC ... 12-1 after the SEC championship blowout win vs Bama. My expectations were just a little too high I guess.

I clearly should've expected 4 blowout losses of biblical proportions vs the best teams on our schedule.... should've known the cumulative score would be in the 190-50 range, avg score in the 47-12 neighborhood.

How did I not see the 778 all purpose yards from Auburn on the horizon, the NCAA record 44.5 yds per special teams return given up this week, the school record 444 rushing yds given up, the 16 offensive Pts vs Auburn, the 3 Pts vs Mizzou.... You're absolutely right.... some of "us people" are just idiots. Should've checked with you cause you, in all your glorious condescension would've surely set us all straight.
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I can say that I was surprised that two of those biblical blowouts did not come at the hands of UGA and USCe. I was also surprised that Mizzou and and Auburn ended up being as good as the are.

I would not have predicted these things pre-season.

I would have predicted the number of blowouts that we have at this point. Coming off the worst defense in UT modern history , having Worley and now a freshman QB , and a rag tag bunch of freshmen , walk-ons, and ex-running backs at receiver , combined with a terrible lack of defensive depth and a new coaching staff ...it was kind of a pre-season no brainier. Those are alot of problems for any team , regardless as to if the wear orange or not.

What I am surprised at is the victory over USCe. We are 1 game better than I thought we would be.

given the items I listed above combined with the 2nd hardest schedule in modern history..why would any one think anything different would have happened?
 
#121
#121
Joe Vols said:
It is a way to gauge if you are getting better or building on prior successes. Getting blown out is worse because it means the team is worse. Better play is better.
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That would only work if you played the same team under the same circumstances, in sequence.

Otherwise it is a fan fallacy that is totally disconnected from the reality of improvement or digression. It is a way to use subjectivity and try to appear objective.

Like I said, a win is a win and a loss is a loss. After the game is over, 1 point or a 1000 points are both infinitely distant from changing the outcome of the game.
 
#122
#122
soda23 said:
I would rather get beat by 28-21 ..instead of 59-14 ,45-10 , 31-3 or 55-23 any day , but you're right a loss is a loss just like 4-6 is 4-6,
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Losing close didn't help Arkansas in 1998, nor did it give them a share of the BCS title.

Losing close didn't help UT under Kiff when we played Bama and had a late field goal blocked. There are no asterisks in the record books.

Losing close didn't help us this year against UGA, and/or didn't help SCAR in Neyland.

Extrapolate out from what you are saying. Would you really feel better if we were 0-10 right now, but only lost by a combined 10 points if that means losing to teams we should have beaten by 1 point and also losing to teams we should have lost to by the same margin?
 
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#123
#123
soda23 said:
Saban was also competitive in every game they played. Never lost by more than 7
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Hmmm did he have to play the #1,#2, #6, #8, #9, #11, #11 teams in the country with a rookie QB, a true freshman QB and a horrid defense he inherited from the worst coach in the schools history? Also playing the toughest schedule in the schools schedule and one of the strongest schedules in 20 years?

I don't think so.
 
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#124
#124
daj2576 said:
Losing close didn't help Arkansas in 1998, nor did it give them a share of the BCS title.

Losing close didn't help UT under Kiff when we played Bama and had a late field goal blocked. There are no asterisks in the record books.

Losing close didn't help us this year against UGA, and/or didn't help SCAR in Neyland.

Extrapolate out from what you are saying. Would you really feel better if we were 0-10 right now, but only lost by a combined 10 points if that means losing to teams we should have beaten by 1 point and also losing to teams we should have lost to by the same margin?
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VN is not used to common sense, be careful :)
 
#125
#125
BigOrangeTrain said:
Hmmm did he have to play the #1,#2, #6, #8, #9, #11, #11 teams in the country with a rookie QB, a true freshman QB and a horrid defense he inherited from the worst coach in the schools history? Also playing the toughest schedule in the schools schedule and one of the strongest schedules in 20 years?

I don't think so.
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Technically he didn't win any games that season. Weren't they all vacated?

Historically Bama played #16 Arkansas and won by 4, #22 UGA and lost by 3, #20 UT and won by 24, #3 LSU and lost by 7 and #25 Auburn, a 7 point loss.

So he played 5 top 25 teams, and beat two.
If you look at averages this year UT played 7 teams with an average ranking of 7th best in the country. That year, Bama played 5 teams with an average ranking of 17th. I would say Jones first year is far more difficult than Saban's, and that isn't considering the difference in talent inherited by both coaches.

His first season wins, before the NCAA wiped the slate, were against Western Carolina, Vanderbilt, Arkansas, Houston, Ole Miss, UT and Colorado. With a surprising loss against La-Monroe.

As I said before, I don't like comparing the two coaches, but if I had to chose I would rather get blown out by really good teams, than have a bunch of close losses to good teams and an embarrassment against an awful team if the end result is the same record.
 
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