Something we should be thankful for...

#101
#101
GoBigOrangeVols said:
might as well just say goodbye program.
Click to expand...

I think that's a terribly short-sighted statement.

With the recent success and national attention our program has achieved, I think a good coaching hire could return us to a high level in 2-3 years.
 
#102
#102
kiddiedoc said:
I think that's a terribly short-sighted statement.

With the recent success and national attention our program has achieved, I think a good coaching hire could return us to a high level in 2-3 years.
Click to expand...

or, the current coach could keep us at a high level for the foreseeable future, as he has done since the day he arrived on campus.
 
#103
#103
kw7pd4 said:
But haven't their rulings been influenced by schools' self inflicted penalties in the past ?
Click to expand...
That's why Tennessee may be able to come out of this all right if they fire Pearl. They aren't going to let Pearl sneak out of a significant punishment because of a fine and a conference suspension.
 
#105
#105
tvolsfan said:
That's why Tennessee may be able to come out of this all right if they fire Pearl. They aren't going to let Pearl sneak out of a significant punishment because of a fine and a conference suspension.
Click to expand...

Maybe not but I don't have inside knowledge of how UT's and CBP's hearings will go.
For all I know, they may well put on a good case.
Or, they may not.
I'll just wait for the official verdict.

But, if I was Pearl and they hit me with a full force penalty, I would sure look into possible legal action for double jeopardy punishment.

But that'll never happen anyway.
 
#106
#106
GoBigOrangeVols said:
The justification is the entire season worth of criticism and the looming cloud over the program would have been almost entirely averted by dismissing CBP in September. By sticking with him then, he has to stick with him now. If cbp is gone after the season, its goodbye tobias, scotty, and the current recruits... might as well just say goodbye program.

If he'd have been fired in September, those relationships could have been salvaged by the interim staff and a full national search for a head coach could have been conducted throughout the entire season. Not to mention, our possible sanctions by the NCAA would likely be significantly less if MH had fired CBP in September.

If he is fired/forced to resign after the tournament, MH will be stretched to sign someone very quickly without doing his due diligence in an attempt to win the coaching carousel rat race.

MH has made his bed with CBP, makes no sense to climb out of it now.
Click to expand...

I see where you're coming from now. It's wrong, but I see it. You were thinking firing and then having an interim for a whole season, then conducting a coaching search. There are two underlying assumptions that I take serious issue with:

First and foremost, you assume that a decision in March would be a quick decision, rather than a decision that has been planned for a while. This is the only way you can justify the comment that a firing here prevents him from doing his due diligence in the coaching carousel.

Second, you assume that relationships built with an interim coach would be somehow better off than relationships with Pearl. You think that if Pearl is fired now, Scotty and Tobias will leave, but if Pearl were fired in September, Scotty and Tobias would be coached by an interim coach, who then leaves, yet they stay. I'm really not sure what makes you think this, so I don't know what to say about it.

Furthermore, on the second point, you say that our current recruits will leave if Pearl is fired in March. They can't. They signed LOIs in the fall. However, you think that an interim coach could've salvaged the class. If the firing were in September, it would've been before LOIs were signed, so the interim coach would've had to convince the current recruits to stay and play for Tennessee even though they have no idea who will be coaching there. Personally, I'll take Pearl continuing the recruitment until the LOIs are signed, which is exactly what MH took.


Here's how I look at it.

Firing coach in September: likely lose the recruiting class. either have to conduct a coaching search at a terrible time (likely sets the program back years) or have a lame duck coach for an entire season. So, best case is losing recruits and having a crappy season. Worst is setting program back years.

Firing coach in March: Kept the recruits. Had distractions during the season. Now have a chance to make a good hire and keep the program on track.

Waiting until June: Had distractions during the season. Now either have to hire a coach at an awful time (likely setting the program back years) or getting minimal penalties, which keep the program on track.

Obviously, only March and June have decent best case scenarios. Obviously, only March avoids the really awful worst case scenarios. Thus, September can be eliminated immediately, and March should be favored over June unless there is strong reason to believe that the worst case June scenario won't occur.
 
#107
#107
tvolsfan said:
You mean when he comes back from suspension in 2-3 years?
Click to expand...

my argument with you all is a bad album on repeat. Just hope win this weekend. If CBP is gone then so be it, I will still support him and I will also support the potential new coach. Thats what real Vol fans do.
 
#108
#108
kw7pd4 said:
Maybe not but I don't have inside knowledge of how UT's and CBP's hearings will go.
For all I know, they may well put on a good case.
Or, they may not.
I'll just wait for the official verdict.

But, if I was Pearl and they hit me with a full force penalty, I would sure look into possible legal action for double jeopardy punishment.
But that'll never happen anyway.
Click to expand...
Please explain the bold.
 
#109
#109
GoBigOrangeVols said:
my argument with you all is a bad album on repeat. Just hope win this weekend. If CBP is gone then so be it, I will still support him and I will also support the potential new coach. Thats what real Vol fans do.
Click to expand...
I honestly won't have a problem with Pearl winning wherever he is after his suspension. I still want him gone after this season.
 
#110
#110
Incipient said:
Furthermore, on the second point, you say that our current recruits will leave if Pearl is fired in March. They can't. They signed LOIs in the fall. However, you think that an interim coach could've salvaged the class. If the firing were in September, it would've been before LOIs were signed, so the interim coach would've had to convince the current recruits to stay and play for Tennessee even though they have no idea who will be coaching there. Personally, I'll take Pearl continuing the recruitment until the LOIs are signed, which is exactly what MH took.
Click to expand...

You make good, thoughtful, and valid arguments throughout your entire post, however, if I'm not mistaken this part could be incorrect. I think if there is a coaching change recruits can be let out of their LOI.

I appreciate your perspective and also appreciate you making a good competent argument in a civil way. I find that to be much more effective than some of the other very opinionated "respected" posters in the bball forum.
 
#111
#111
tvolsfan said:
Please explain the bold.
Click to expand...

Well, I'm no lawyer (thank God) but it seems to me that Slime hit him with 8 game suspension and UT with a salary cut, then if the NCAA hits him with, say a maximum 2 year with show cause, what good were the first two ?

The salary and suspension were for naught and then would be undeserving.
 
#112
#112
kw7pd4 said:
Well, I'm no lawyer (thank God) but it seems to me that Slime hit him with 8 game suspension and UT with a salary cut, then if the NCAA hits him with, say a maximum 2 year with show cause, what good were the first two ?

The salary and suspension were for naught and then would be undeserving.
Click to expand...

Interesting, but I think anything the NCAA hits him with, they will consider as an addition to his previous penalty, and not a new penalty altogether.
 
#113
#113
kw7pd4 said:
Well, I'm no lawyer (thank God) but it seems to me that Slime hit him with 8 game suspension and UT with a salary cut, then if the NCAA hits him with, say a maximum 2 year with show cause, what good were the first two ?

The salary and suspension were for naught and then would be undeserving.
Click to expand...
That's not how double jeopardy works.
 
#114
#114
GoBigOrangeVols said:
Interesting, but I think anything the NCAA hits him with, they will consider as an addition to his previous penalty, and not a new penalty altogether.
Click to expand...

That's sort of what I meant.
Like:
If UT had suspended him for a year, it's not likely the NCAA would then suspend him for 2 years on top.
To me, that's double penalty.

Like him or not, whatever should be fair.
 
#116
#116
kw7pd4 said:
That's sort of what I meant.
Like:
If UT had suspended him for a year, it's not likely the NCAA would then suspend him for 2 years on top.
To me, that's double penalty.

Like him or not, whatever should be fair.
Click to expand...

I see what you mean. If the NCAA originally wanted to suspend him for 2 years, but UT already suspended him for one year, the likely result is that the NCAA would suspend him for one additional year.
 
#117
#117
GoBigOrangeVols said:
You make good, thoughtful, and valid arguments throughout your entire post, however, if I'm not mistaken this part could be incorrect. I think if there is a coaching change recruits can be let out of their LOI.

I appreciate your perspective and also appreciate you making a good competent argument in a civil way. I find that to be much more effective than some of the other very opinionated "respected" posters in the bball forum.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I try to actually discuss the points and not just start name-calling.

Regarding the recruiting case, recruits can be let out of their LOIs in a coaching change, but they don't have to be. Tennessee has set precedent of not allowing recruits out of their LOIs. It came up with both the Pearl hiring (Tyler Smith) and the Dooley hiring (Kiffin's EE's: Bray, Fugate, Miller, etc.). Both times, the athletic department said that these players committed to a school, not a coach.

Really, I'm just crossing my fingers and hoping for the best for the program. But, given how bad the June worst case scenario is (also, given that I expect it), it would be much easier on my nerves just to do something in March, provided it was a good something. If we hire Wade Houston next week, nobody will be happy. But if we hire Bill Self (obviously, our actual hire is something in between), the next three months will be a lot less stressful.
 
#118
#118
GoBigOrangeVols said:
I see what you mean. If the NCAA originally wanted to suspend him for 2 years, but UT already suspended him for one year, the likely result is that the NCAA would suspend him for one additional year.
Click to expand...

Exactly

So given that, my old brain tells me that the salary hit and suspension SHOULD have a bearing on the final verdict, regardless of the NOW FAMOUS 19 of 20 other cases.
 
#119
#119
kw7pd4 said:
Exactly

So given that, my old brain tells me that the salary hit and suspension SHOULD have a bearing on the final verdict, regardless of the NOW FAMOUS 19 of 20 other cases.
Click to expand...

I agree that it should. Well, the suspension should. I don't think the NCAA cares that much about fines.

But if the standard punishment is a two-year suspension, this just reduces it to a 1.75 year suspension. To me, anything more than half a year is too much for us to wait around for.
 
#120
#120
Incipient said:
I agree that it should. Well, the suspension should. I don't think the NCAA cares that much about fines.

But if the standard punishment is a two-year suspension, this just reduces it to a 1.75 year suspension. To me, anything more than half a year is too much for us to wait around for.
Click to expand...

Well, that's back to my point.
If they hit him with a two year, then the salary fine is undeserving, IMO.

I don't get into this stuff all that much but, in all the famous 19 cases, were any of the coaches heavily fined before the NCAA ruling ?
 
#121
#121
kw7pd4 said:
Well, that's back to my point.
If they hit him with a two year, then the salary fine is undeserving, IMO.

I don't get into this stuff all that much but, in all the famous 19 cases, were any of the coaches heavily fined before the NCAA ruling ?
Click to expand...

I think they were all fired before the NCAA ruling.
 
#122
#122
kw7pd4 said:
Well, that's back to my point.
If they hit him with a two year, then the salary fine is undeserving, IMO.

I don't get into this stuff all that much but, in all the famous 19 cases, were any of the coaches heavily fined before the NCAA ruling ?
Click to expand...

Pearl wasn't fined. The sanctions imposed on Pearl were made in hopes that the NCAA would deem them sufficient. So, they were actually to help Pearl not hurt him.
 
#123
#123
Well, we'll see what happens.
Doesn't matter what we hope for or what we predict.

Nice chatting with you.
Very civil.
 
#125
#125
LawVol13 said:
Pearl wasn't fined. The sanctions imposed on Pearl were made in hopes that the NCAA would deem them sufficient. So, they were actually to help Pearl not hurt him.
Click to expand...

Hanging on a word.

He lost money, same result.

So if he gets the max penalty, the $$ loss is undeserving. IMO
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top