Somewhat off topic: Is it possible that Pig Howard

#76
#76
Sandvol said:
has the Arian Foster curse? I don't believe in bashing players and this isn't meant to bash and Pig is definitely a good player and asset to the team but you can arguably say he cost us two wins. I believe someone pointed out that Arian probably cost Tennessee five wins during his Tennessee career due to untimely fumbles. Does this mean Pig is going to cost us at least three more games?
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One play is not what "cost us the game." It is a contributing factor in a series of plays that result in a loss. Your argument is only valid if you place an equal amount of blame on other players for a false start, holding penalty, roughing the kicker, a missed block, running the wrong route etc. That's why they say tou win as a team and you lose as a team.
 
#77
#77
Tennsolider1 said:
Now I have heard some crazy off the wall crap before but to TRY and blame one person for a TEAM loss is dumb and this topic!!!! Can't believe someone started it or even thought it. If the TEAM makes the plays we win more games. Pig is a playmaker and plays on a different level than some of the other players.
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This! Stupid OP
 
#78
#78
Sandvol said:
The fumble into the end zone of the Georgia game and then the untimely illegal block in the Vanderbilt game.
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Football is a team sport. Players make mistakes during the games in every position.

The fumble would have caused the Dogs to need a touchdown to extend the game to a second overtime, but it's not guaranteed they would not have gotten it. If Pig scored that touchdown we still might have lost the game.

And while the extra seven points against Vandy would have been great, their absence didn't solely lose us that game. If Palardy had hit that missed FG, Butch never goes for the fake and we're probably up by 6 more. So did Palardy lose the game for us? Regardless, if our defense hadn't completely vanished during that last drive, we'd have still won.

Someone else said it above, but in summary, how do you blame Pig for two mistakes but not weigh those against the multitude of good plays he made for us this year?
 
#79
#79
No. Pig gives effort something you can't say about Foster. It wasn't Fosters fumbles that stick out to me it was his half a$$ed attitude. Foster got worse every year he was on campus. He looked great his freshman season, but looked like he didn't want to be here by his senior year. Had Montario hardestys knees held up foster would have been a career back up...
 
#80
#80
OrangeBlitz said:
Football is a team sport. Players make mistakes during the games in every position.

The fumble would have caused the Dogs to need a touchdown to extend the game to a second overtime, but it's not guaranteed they would not have gotten it. If Pig scored that touchdown we still might have lost the game.

And while the extra seven points against Vandy would have been great, their absence didn't solely lose us that game. If Palardy had hit that missed FG, Butch never goes for the fake and we're probably up by 6 more. So did Palardy lose the game for us? Regardless, if our defense hadn't completely vanished during that last drive, we'd have still won.

Someone else said it above, but in summary, how do you blame Pig for two mistakes but not weigh those against the multitude of good plays he made for us this year?
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Yes, but his fumble essentially gave the game to Georgia. All they had to do was kick a field goal. If he had scored we probably win the game because Georgia did nothing during their possession. They tried to advance the ball closer but couldn't and ended up kicking a 42 yard field goal. Your points are valid but you can't have the yin without the yang. If Pig scores there and we win the game everybody is praising Pig for what a clutch run and score. So it is equally OK to then question his ability to make clutch plays when the game is on the line and he fumbles or when our quarterback runs into the end zone but he makes an untimely and unnecessary illegal block and the TD is wiped away.
 
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#81
#81
jarnol32 said:
No. Pig gives effort something you can't say about Foster. It wasn't Fosters fumbles that stick out to me it was his half a$$ed attitude. Foster got worse every year he was on campus. He looked great his freshman season, but looked like he didn't want to be here by his senior year. Had Montario hardestys knees held up foster would have been a career back up...
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Why do you think Foster's attitude was so bad? I know his momma defended him all the time on the message boards.
 
#83
#83
OrangeBlitz said:
My point exactly. You can't say he's cursed by costing us games when he makes a mistake without saying he's blessed by winning us games when he scores.
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For instance?

P.S. -And I agree. We need to acknowledge him when he does something clutch.
 
#84
#84
Pig is too slow. That's why those fly sweeps don't work. Haven't you heard? The '13 Vols had no speed. All better next year though....
 
#85
#85
sjt18 said:
Pig is too slow. That's why those fly sweeps don't work. Haven't you heard? The '13 Vols had no speed. All better next year though....
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I'm not sure if its that because if you go back and watch some of them it seems the wide receivers don't block very well or they seem un-cognizant of who they're supposed to be blocking.
 
#86
#86
Sandvol said:
I'm not sure if its that because if you go back and watch some of them it seems the wide receivers don't block very well or they seem un-cognizant of who they're supposed to be blocking.
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Sorry the sarcasm wasn't more clear.

About half the teams in CFB run plays like that. Almost all of them figure out how to block those plays effectively. MOST have lesser athletes compared to what UT had this year. But somehow from the start of the season until the end, UT never really made big plays doing it. IIRC, that is a staple of Jones' system.

I would have hoped for some evidence of scheme adjustment or improvement.
 
#87
#87
sjt18 said:
Sorry the sarcasm wasn't more clear.

About half the teams in CFB run plays like that. Almost all of them figure out how to block those plays effectively. MOST have lesser athletes compared to what UT had this year. But somehow from the start of the season until the end, UT never really made big plays doing it. IIRC, that is a staple of Jones' system.

I would have hoped for some evidence of scheme adjustment or improvement.
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Yes. It also seems like we might be tipping them off because it seems like there is a team portrait of the opposing defense in our backfield every time we run them.
 
#88
#88
Pig has more than sufficient speed to be dangerous in that play and to break off one every now and again for big yardage.
 
#89
#89
sjt18 said:
Pig has more than sufficient speed to be dangerous in that play and to break off one every now and again for big yardage.
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This whole idea we don't have any team speed is erroneous. We don't react quickly but we have plenty of speed.
 
#92
#92
Sandvol said:
This whole idea we don't have any team speed is erroneous. We don't react quickly but we have plenty of speed.
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Agree. Been saying the same thing all year. That's one reason I fear even more disappointment next year. People keep repeating that they are recruiting more "speed" but the recruits (at least from recruiting svc evals) look very similar to what the players who are being lost looked like as recruits. Guys like McNeil, Coleman, J Smith, Miller, etc supposedly had great speed. Brewer and Sapp ARE fast by any measure of a LB.

So whatever kept all of those guys from reacting quickly will still be there... coupled with a very young and inexperienced team. If someone wanted to argue that one player or another lacked instinct or some other component to quick reaction I could buy that... but all of them? That to me points toward coaching and development.
 
#93
#93
sjt18 said:
Agree. Been saying the same thing all year. That's one reason I fear even more disappointment next year. People keep repeating that they are recruiting more "speed" but the recruits (at least from recruiting svc evals) look very similar to what the players who are being lost looked like as recruits. Guys like McNeil, Coleman, J Smith, Miller, etc supposedly had great speed. Brewer and Sapp ARE fast by any measure of a LB.

So whatever kept all of those guys from reacting quickly will still be there... coupled with a very young and inexperienced team. If someone wanted to argue that one player or another lacked instinct or some other component to quick reaction I could buy that... but all of them? That to me points toward coaching and development.
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You know they've seen two different offenses and three different defenses in the last three years. Let's hope its that and will correct. The people who claim Malzahn had an advantage because neither the offense or defense has changed there have a point. Maybe another spring of acclimation will do the trick.

P.S.-I think Malzahn's just a great coach. To put the guy back there to run back was brilliant. Many would have stuffed the line to block.
 
#94
#94
Auburn is a very talented team and Malzahn is a very good coach.

Buy the O argument... but not the D. These guys were only 1 year removed from not only playing the 4-3 but playing it reasonably well. The x factor is Wilcox vs Jancek IMO. I HOPE that the difference is that Jancek is more thorough but is more effective in the end.... not comfortable with that idea though.

The "talent" and "speed" difference between this D roster and the one in '11 simply does not justify an increase in ppg allowed from 22.6 to 29 or ypg allowed from 340 to 418.

Even if you look at just vs the SEC, they still allowed 60 more ypg and 4 more ppg. Four ppg is pretty significant. The #9 scoring D in the SEC this year was only 4.7 ppg behind #3.
 
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#95
#95
But its not just a 4-3 and a 4-3. Two different coordinators emphasize different things. More cover 2 versus man under or 40, nickel, dime packages different- a lot there. Young minds get confused when you're throwing a bunch at them and thinking too much and not reacting.

P.S.-I do think you're points about Jancek(sp?) are valid because he failed his first time in SEC and not off to good start his second time. I don't think Jones will make any changes though.
 
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#96
#96
OP,
Football season is over, bro. Chill.

Please refrain from startiing anymore "what if" voodoo threads.
 
#97
#97
Jake Tate said:
OP,
Football season is over, bro. Chill.

Please refrain from startiing anymore "what if" voodoo threads.
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Didn't mean to hurt your brain Bro.

P.S.-I've got another really good "what if" so please refrain from reading the board between 12/10 and 12/17 so you won't hurt your brain.
 
#98
#98
Sandvol said:
Why do you think Foster's attitude was so bad? I know his momma defended him all the time on the message boards.
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He tried to quit before the Wyoming game, and gave about half effort his entire senior year. Then when he gets to the nfl and gets rich he starts calling ut out on stuff that happened when he was there just to get attention. Without UT he wouldn't be were he is today. Kind of like biting the hand that feed you.
 
#99
#99
jarnol32 said:
He tried to quit before the Wyoming game, and gave about half effort his entire senior year. Then when he gets to the nfl and gets rich he starts calling ut out on stuff that happened when he was there just to get attention. Without UT he wouldn't be were he is today. Kind of like biting the hand that feed you.
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Personally I think too much momma involvement.
 
#100
#100
The only game I remember a Foster fumble "costing" us was the bowl loss to Penn State, when he fumbled on the lone good potential scoring drive of the afternoon.

He fumbled in the end zone in a loss to Auburn one year, but that entire game was more on Jonathan Crompton than Foster. His fumble against Florida one year killed our comeback momentum, but it's hard to blame one fumble for a 59-20 loss.

That fumble-through-the-end-zone-is-a-turnover rule is an archaic technicality that needs to be changed.
 
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