State Makes All Adults in England Organ Donors Unless They Object

[Franklin Pierce]

Every adult in England is now an organ donor unless they explicitly inform the socialised National Health Service (NHS) that they object.

The Organ Donation (Deemed Consent) Bill became law in March 2019, meaning that every adult of sound mind who lived in England at least one year before death is automatically considered an organ donor. Other exclusions apply, including those with certain health conditions.

Hitherto, to donate your organs, you would have to opt in to the system. As of Wednesday, people in England will have to inform the NHS either by phone or filling in an online form to register their refusal. Next-of-kin still has the right to deny organ and tissue harvesting after death even if you are registered on the system as a donor.

A similar law was passed in Wales in 2015, with another set to hit the Scottish statute books in the autumn. Northern Ireland retains the scheme where bequeathing organs for transplants is still treated as a conscious donation.

State Makes All Adults in England Organ Donors Unless They Object

 

[GoBigOrangeUT]

I see no issue here. Next of kin still has veto power.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Organ harvesting...

Why pay tens of thousands of dollars on the black market when govt can just take them for free?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I see no issue here. Next of kin still has veto power.

So basically, by default, your organs are owned by the state.

 

[Ten_Titans]

So basically, by default, your organs are owned by the state.

No... Pretty sure they still belong to you until you die. Why you would want your dead self to maintain ownership of your organs I'm not sure.

I think it's a good idea. I'm guessing most people don't register as organ doners because they don't think about it, not because they are against it.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

No... Pretty sure they still belong to you until you die. Why you would want your dead self to maintain ownership of your organs I'm not sure.

I think it's a good idea. I'm guessing most people don't register as organ doners because they don't think about it, not because they are against it.

You are just assuming. I think most are just like myself.

 

[GoBigOrangeUT]

You are just assuming. I think most are just like myself.

I ask because I genuinely don’t know the answer: do you have rights when you die?

 

[bamawriter]

Seems like a burdensome way of opting out. Should be on your ID like in the US.

Otherwise I don't have a problem with donation being the default position.

 

[LouderVol]

Oh sound mind is an interesting clause.

Also when the state owns the health care, and the state already decides the value of your life, and the state now owns your organs, nothing could go wrong.

 

[LouderVol]

I ask because I genuinely don’t know the answer: do you have rights when you die?

Pretty sure yeah. Grave robbing is a crime. If you have a will I believe it holds legal standing to your wishes.

 

[Ten_Titans]

You are just assuming. I think most are just like myself.

You're right. I'm sympathetic to your point, I just think letting someone die an agonizing death in a hospital is probably not worth letting someone who's already dead keep their organs because they just so happened to never fill out the card.

Like I said, assuming it was simple and straightforward to get on the exemption list, I would be for something similar here.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I ask because I genuinely don’t know the answer: do you have rights when you die?

My body, my choice.

 

[GoBigOrangeUT]

My body, my choice.

You have a lifetime to choose...

 

[volinbham]

I ask because I genuinely don’t know the answer: do you have rights when you die?

absolutely - the state doesn't control what happens to your body after you die currently. You can specify what you wish to happen via a will and if that's not the case then your executor has decision making authority.

 

[volinbham]

You have a lifetime to choose...

wills are ways to choose beyond life.

 

[volinbham]

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

You're right. I'm sympathetic to your point, I just think letting someone die an agonizing death in a hospital is probably not worth letting someone who's already dead keep their organs because they just so happened to never fill out the card.

Like I said, assuming it was simple and straightforward to get on the exemption list, I would be for something similar here.

I guess I am of the opposite opinion. The default should be that the organs came with me when I was born, they leave with me when I die.

If I want my organs donated, I have the opportunity and the option to put myself on the organ donor program. To assume that I would have wanted my organs donated, but I was too busy to fill out the paperwork is an injustice. Plus, what about possible religious problems that may come up. I'm pretty sure there are religions that are against organ donation or taking organs from dead people.

The temptation would be that the people in control of this system would rather not treat some patients and save the hassle of treating them and instead make cursory efforts to save patients initially, but them pull the plug and start harvesting organs.

 

[GoBigOrangeUT]

wills are ways to choose beyond life.

Right. So what does it matter if the default option is donation? You have myriad of ways to choose what you want to do and even if you decide not to do that, your next of kin can.

 

[volinbham]

Right. So what does it matter if the default option is donation? You have myriad of ways to choose what you want to do and even if you decide not to do that, your next of kin can.

Because the default option is that the state owns you unless you opt out.

How about if the state inserts a chip in you at birth and if you want to opt out you can have it removed?

We're told we can't have voter ID because it's too much of a burden for people but the state owning your body upon death unless you opt out isn't a burden? The same argument applies - who do you think would be least likely to know they can't opt out or have difficulty doing it?

If there's a shortage of organs there are hundreds of ways to encourage opting in.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Right. So what does it matter if the default option is donation? You have myriad of ways to choose what you want to do and even if you decide not to do that, your next of kin can.

You are exactly right. The issue is, the default should be to NOT be an organ donor. If someone really feels strongly about wanting to be an organ donor, they will go through the proper procedures without haste. But don't just assume that I want my organs scattered all over creation after I die on the false assumption that I would have wanted my organs donated if I would have just sat down long enough to go through the process.

 

[volinbham]

I'm an organ donor BTW

 

[LouderVol]

Right. So what does it matter if the default option is donation? You have myriad of ways to choose what you want to do and even if you decide not to do that, your next of kin can.

Because this is an unsettling step. Next there wont be a way to opt out. Or you have to pay to opt out. There are a million ways this gets abused.

You die temporarily, and suddenly you have lost all rights you used to have. Brain dead but a chance you may recover, family is able to pay, government decides to turn off life support to collect your organs. They already can turn off the support. This just makes that step one bit closer

 

[Velo Vol]

If there's a shortage of organs there are hundreds of ways to encourage opting in.

This is by far the most effective way.

 

[volinbham]

I'll repeat - if a shortage of voluntary donors is an issue then there are tons of ways to encourage more people to participate. If you can't get more volunteers by any means and you have to resort to this then you are admitting that you want to take organs without people agreeing to it.

 

[volinbham]

This is by far the most effective way.

effective is the criteria? Interesting. Lot's of applications for that "for the good of society".

making the trains run on time comes to mind