Sweeping Sexual Assault Suit Filed Against UT

[ButchPlz]

This thread sucks.

 

[BruinVol]

This thread sucks.

Yep

Would be awesome if it never existed

 

[MustafaRasta]

You have the right to think what your are going to but that is false.


If a girl is raped and misses class time due to the emotional distress the school is obligated to work with her and the professor has zero say in that matter. It's really simple

Hoping we have other real topics to discuss here but this one is over. Some of you don't understand the legal issues universities have and it appears that isn't changing.

source? I just read the title 9 law, admitedly in outline form found here: Campus Sexual Assault: Suggested Policies and Procedures | AAUP

I saw nothing about what you were saying.

If you could point me in the drection where I can find your source I'd be interested in reading that.

 

[BaldBiker]

source? I just read the title 9 law, admitedly in outline form found here: Campus Sexual Assault: Suggested Policies and Procedures | AAUP

I saw nothing about what you were saying.

If you could point me in the drection where I can find your source I'd be interested in reading that.

I'd like to see his source too. I am a college professor and program director. I cannot tell one of my instructors they have to take a single student in a self study class up and beyond their regular class schedule. A self study class has to be taught minute for minute just like a regular class....and no, you can't just tell somebody they have to teach it.

Could possibly do it if you had a teacher who had a light teaching schedule at the time, but they would have to be qualified to teach said class.

 

[MustafaRasta]

Well you can find the actual law online as well. Which also mentions nothing at all like what he is saying. I just tried to search based on his statement and the above link was the closest thing I could find.

 

[butchna]

I'd like to see his source too. I am a college professor and program director. I cannot tell one of my instructors they have to take a single student in a self study class up and beyond their regular class schedule. A self study class has to be taught minute for minute just like a regular class....and no, you can't just tell somebody they have to teach it.

Could possibly do it if you had a teacher who had a light teaching schedule at the time, but they would have to be qualified to teach said class.

But Bruin?...took a class?... recently? :unsure:

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

But Bruin?...took a class?... recently? :unsure:

No no no. He's a in the middle of earning his Ph.D. He's doing some very groundbreaking research on redundancy, overbearingness, and redundancy.

 

[VolsnRavens]

So to get back on subject. I think that had anything happened with overwhelming evidence such as the incident with Vandy (See here: Ex-player: Brandon Vandenburg knew to flush condoms ) UT wouldn't be fighting the Title IX charges as hard as they are. That story is absolutely disgusting. And I hope and pray that there is none of that in any of the UT case.

 

[UT_Tix79]

It's really a no win situation for UT, and that's what sucks about Title IX. You can't win, which is why lawyers are jumping on these cases as fast as they can. The school will lose in court, but if they settle, they lose also.

That's why you see every school settling, because athletes do get treated differently than regular students. And star athletes get treated different than bench players.

And, everytime we punish differently, it's a violation of title IX... And no school wants to lose its federal funding which is what can happen if you take it to court

 

[volfan102455]

It's really a no win situation for UT, and that's what sucks about Title IX. You can't win, which is why lawyers are jumping on these cases as fast as they can. The school will lose in court, but if they settle, they lose also.

What makes you so sure they will lose? I'm not convinced that is the case. If this case were rock solid, there would be no need for the continual sensationalism in the media. What someone may have said to someone else would not be to be discussed. A 20+ year old incident would not be brought up. The choice of music that someone may listen to would not be relevant. The merits of the case would stand alone. There were be clear evidence that for each of the plaintiffs in the case that the University had done something in violation of its own policies.

That's why you see every school settling, because athletes do get treated differently than regular students. And star athletes get treated different than bench players.

Do you have proof that in terms of this particular issue that they are treated differently? Do you know non athletes that were accused where action by the university was different? Were the situations the same? You can't make a blanket statement like this just because you think it must be true.

This law suit aside, athletes have different expectations than regular students. They have increased demands, they are known by even those whom they don't know, everything they do wrong can and will become public knowledge, so yes their life on campus is going to be different and yes their needs are going to be different. Non athletes who receive scholarships or use state programs like Tennessee Promise, et al, have different demands on them than students who pay their own way. No student's expectations and experiences are going to be the same. Just because there are differences doesn't imply something is wrong.

And, everytime we punish differently, it's a violation of title IX... And no school wants to lose its federal funding which is what can happen if you take it to court

This is what the plaintiffs must prove. They need to prove that the University did not follow their own guidelines or that those guidelines are not in line with title IX. Unfortunately some mix the criminal part of this that UT has no control over with what UT has control over and let their emotions and beliefs around that cloud their reasoning.

This lawsuit should be about the processes and procedures the University followed. It is not about whether the criminal activity happened. That is for a different court to rule on.

 

[UT_Tix79]

Did we punish all athletes involved the same way?

No...

That's all the plaintiffs need to prove.

One athlete was suspended and removed from school

One athlete was suspended but allowed to continue school

One athlete was immediately suspended and removed from school, and then allowed back once the case fell thru.

We are guilty, but it's a ****ty law with a no win situation.

If we punish too fast, and it was a fake rape, the athlete suffers.

If we don't punish fast enough, we're too lenient.

But, the rules say the accused is suspended from all school activities pending the outcome of the accusation. And, we didn't do that for all cases involved, whether the accusations were legit or not

 

[jp1]

It's really a no win situation for UT, and that's what sucks about Title IX. You can't win, which is why lawyers are jumping on these cases as fast as they can. The school will lose in court, but if they settle, they lose also.

That's why you see every school settling, because athletes do get treated differently than regular students. And star athletes get treated different than bench players.

And, everytime we punish differently, it's a violation of title IX... And no school wants to lose its federal funding which is what can happen if you take it to court

How can a court that doles out different sentences all the time for exact scenerio crimes possibly settle this dispute?

 

[volfan102455]

But, the rules say the accused is suspended from all school activities pending the outcome of the accusation. And, we didn't do that for all cases involved, whether the accusations were legit or not

The rules do not and should not say this. That would mean that if you were a student, I could say you did something when you really didn't and the school would have to suspend you because I said you did something until YOU proved you did not do it in a criminal court.

Each of the cases are independent with different individuals and different situations that had to be evaluated.

 

[AM64]

How can a court that doles out different sentences all the time for exact scenerio crimes possibly settle this dispute?

There are no exact circumstances but there are similar circumstances. If you can find absolute equality and fairness in the world, great; but be prepared for a long search. You can bet that when individual events are handled one big factor that changes everything is demeanor and prior conduct. Because none of us were there we don't know all the facts and we don't know if some of the people involved were perceived as problems waiting to happen or just victims of bad timing or judgement. We don't know if some were remorseful or surly and argumentative. Judgement always involves those kinds of factors, and we don't know them. That's the basis for the old adage about walking in someone else's shoes.

Most students are just students - faceless part of the crowd. The person sitting in judgment sees a face (yep, faces elicit different responses) and hears words (some spin a better tale than others). Those will weigh on what happens. Coaches interact with players daily, and you can bet that they have a feel for whether the player is going to be a repeating problem - better to nip it in the bud or someone who made a poor decision that he/she is unlikely to repeat. Equal doesn't exist in people.

 

[I40flyer]

When in doubt, check the UT Catalog:
""""""""""Class Attendance Guidelines for Extenuating Circumstances

In rare cases, students may have extenuating circumstances that make it impossible for them to attend all sessions of a class. These include military orders, court-imposed legal obligations, religious observances, extended illness, and participation in university, college, or unit sponsored activities that lead to clear experiential and educational outcomes. On the first day of class each term, or immediately after the student knows of the need to miss class because of one of these extenuating circumstances, the student should share with the instructor a document detailing the extenuating circumstance. The document should outline the dates on which classes will be missed. Students with documented extenuating circumstances should be allowed to make up missed examinations. Instructors have discretion to determine what coursework, beyond examinations, is available for make-up credit. Instructors who feel the required time away from class may be too much to allow a student to do well should consult with the student to determine whether, through extra effort and tutoring, the student may be able to achieve the learning outcomes of the class. If not, the instructor should recommend that the student withdraw from the course. If at all possible, the recommendation to withdraw from the class should occur before the end of the add/drop period. Students should consult with an academic advisor as soon as they know that a class must be dropped.""""""""""""

I don't see a single line, that says, check with Title IX, or get the Provost, or.......
The Paragraph is very simple to understand, furthermore, every UT student has a Catalog, I'm always amazed at the crack pipe fantasies some people come up with, rather than read the facts. Also, where in title IX does it state, a school will order their professors to create Independent studies programs, if so ordered, and do so in time to keep a student from not missing a thing???? My guess, most professors don't have the time, because of a phone call from an administrator, to immediately develop and institute an independent study program, be it do to injury, being an accused or accuser in a title IX complaint (law suit), or any other reason, it is just unrealistic-to say the Very Least.

 

[Orangedogsrule]

When in doubt, check the UT Catalog:
""""""""""Class Attendance Guidelines for Extenuating Circumstances

In rare cases, students may have extenuating circumstances that make it impossible for them to attend all sessions of a class. These include military orders, court-imposed legal obligations, religious observances, extended illness, and participation in university, college, or unit sponsored activities that lead to clear experiential and educational outcomes. On the first day of class each term, or immediately after the student knows of the need to miss class because of one of these extenuating circumstances, the student should share with the instructor a document detailing the extenuating circumstance. The document should outline the dates on which classes will be missed. Students with documented extenuating circumstances should be allowed to make up missed examinations. Instructors have discretion to determine what coursework, beyond examinations, is available for make-up credit. Instructors who feel the required time away from class may be too much to allow a student to do well should consult with the student to determine whether, through extra effort and tutoring, the student may be able to achieve the learning outcomes of the class. If not, the instructor should recommend that the student withdraw from the course. If at all possible, the recommendation to withdraw from the class should occur before the end of the add/drop period. Students should consult with an academic advisor as soon as they know that a class must be dropped.""""""""""""

I don't see a single line, that says, check with Title IX, or get the Provost, or.......
The Paragraph is very simple to understand, furthermore, every UT student has a Catalog, I'm always amazed at the crack pipe fantasies some people come up with, rather than read the facts. Also, where in title IX does it state, a school will order their professors to create Independent studies programs, if so ordered, and do so in time to keep a student from not missing a thing???? My guess, most professors don't have the time, because of a phone call from an administrator, to immediately develop and institute an independent study program, be it do to injury, being an accused or accuser in a title IX complaint (law suit), or any other reason, it is just unrealistic-to say the Very Least.

So ... The UT catalog response to special situation academic needs hasn't changed much since around 1982; even with Title IX supposedly "simple" requirements to "force" a professor to develop and teach a whole, new, not in the catalog, course.

Hmmmm

 

[UT-Rex]

Did we punish all athletes involved the same way?

No...

That's all the plaintiffs need to prove.

We are guilty, but it's a ****ty law with a no win situation.

Title IX, TIX. The school is not guilty, per the athletic hc's who come out to show their support that the school has done things the right way. The law was put in 1972, and is probably a pretty good law, but simply because 4-6 student-athletes over a course of 2-4 years made some mistakes, or that women were over at males' apartments at 2:30a.m. for what ever reason, does not mean that the school / school Leaders is/are guilty of creating a culture of discrimination --

"I. Overview of Title IX: Interplay with Title VI, Section 504, Title VII, and the Fourteenth Amendment

In June 1972, President Nixon signed Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972 into law. Title IX is a comprehensive federal law that has removed many barriers that once prevented people, on the basis of sex, from participating in educational opportunities and careers of their choice. It states that:

No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation, in be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance.

...."

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

When in doubt, check the UT Catalog:
""""""""""Class Attendance Guidelines for Extenuating Circumstances

In rare cases, students may have extenuating circumstances that make it impossible for them to attend all sessions of a class. These include military orders, court-imposed legal obligations, religious observances, extended illness, and participation in university, college, or unit sponsored activities that lead to clear experiential and educational outcomes. On the first day of class each term, or immediately after the student knows of the need to miss class because of one of these extenuating circumstances, the student should share with the instructor a document detailing the extenuating circumstance. The document should outline the dates on which classes will be missed. Students with documented extenuating circumstances should be allowed to make up missed examinations. Instructors have discretion to determine what coursework, beyond examinations, is available for make-up credit. Instructors who feel the required time away from class may be too much to allow a student to do well should consult with the student to determine whether, through extra effort and tutoring, the student may be able to achieve the learning outcomes of the class. If not, the instructor should recommend that the student withdraw from the course. If at all possible, the recommendation to withdraw from the class should occur before the end of the add/drop period. Students should consult with an academic advisor as soon as they know that a class must be dropped.""""""""""""

I don't see a single line, that says, check with Title IX, or get the Provost, or.......
The Paragraph is very simple to understand, furthermore, every UT student has a Catalog, I'm always amazed at the crack pipe fantasies some people come up with, rather than read the facts. Also, where in title IX does it state, a school will order their professors to create Independent studies programs, if so ordered, and do so in time to keep a student from not missing a thing???? My guess, most professors don't have the time, because of a phone call from an administrator, to immediately develop and institute an independent study program, be it do to injury, being an accused or accuser in a title IX complaint (law suit), or any other reason, it is just unrealistic-to say the Very Least.

But, but, but...

There is zero scenario where a professor can't work with a student independently if they are forced to do so with a medical or legal issue

And yes I have been in a classroom lately and perhaps not even sitting in a desk listening so you might want to stop with the silly childish post you have zero freaking idea what you are talking about

 

[HazMat]

All I can say is now thinking about this thread.. of all this nonsense trying to be put together into 'something' - Mother of all things good and great did we dodge a bullet by not firing Holly to induct Tyler Summit.

 

[BruinVol]

I guess I owe you an apology: you may be totally insufferable and annoying, but you weren't wrong about this and I was wrong to call your argument intellectually dishonest.

Thanks. Good to see you are man enough to admit you are wrong and move on.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

Thanks. Good to see you are man enough to admit you are wrong and move on.

Makes one of us

 

[MustafaRasta]

Thanks. Good to see you are man enough to admit you are wrong and move on.

I'm still waiting on that source hoss.

 

[VolsnRavens]

You can tell the off season is almost here. Everyone is getting testy on VN. Calm down guys. Lot's of time between now and August. There will be plenty of dumb posts to rag on each other about.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

You can tell the off season is almost here. Everyone is getting testy on VN. Calm down guys. Lot's of time between now and August. There will be plenty of dumb posts to rag on each other about.

I'm not testy! Try saying that to my face! You wanna go, man!?



Seriously though, is it just me or has spring ball kinda felt like the offseason this year? There aren't too many position battles to discuss, a lot of our best players are out with injuries, and a some of our other best ones are seeing somewhat reduced loads since everybody already knows what they've got.

 

[dcm3w]

Tennesseean throwing more shade at us.

Report: Communication between Butch Jones, police may have violated state law