Taliban Taking Over Afghanistan - Does anyone care?

[AirVol]

Xiden’s administration cares more about CRT and pronouns than the withdrawal.

 

[Vol737]

It’s not just Biden, although he’s ultimately responsible since it’s on his watch. Pompeo is the one who negotiated the timeline and basically hung the Afghan government out to dry.

I would have preferred flexibility in the timeline vs hard date for a multitude of reasons, and what we are seeing now is one of those reasons. I’ve already harped about the lack of preparedness and contingency plans for any eventuality. This withdrawal was a complete bush league, amateur operation start to finish. We needed to leave, though. I just can’t believe the Afghan Army we trained had zero fight in them. We probably knew that though and a lot of this is on them for not having the will. Shameful all around.

 

[utvolpj]

Perhaps for a good reason. This reason. There are some reports that this event was actually against Intel recommendations. Let's see how those reports pan out.

There is no good reason to stay in that country. We failed to learn from history

 

[05_never_again]

I think we should have remained at the bases, as a deterrent. But clearly the efforts we made to train their military were a huge waste.

What makes that doubly bad is that they knew, or at least strongly suspected from the very beginning, that those efforts would be a waste. Convincing the people of Afghanistan to come together to fight/protect that country is like convincing fans of SEC teams to dissolve/give up on their individual team loyalties and become fans of "Team SEC" or something like that.

When our people would go to the warlords and try and help them create this, many of them probably did not even understand the concept, and for those that did it was a total non-starter.

 

[RikidyBones]

There is no good reason to stay in that country. We failed to learn from history

If there are logistic issues, there's a reason to put together a strategy and delay at least. Logistics need to be better or a sweep of the higher ups to cripple the Taliban just before heading out so they aren't the threat they are now. Something besides this. This is mismanaged at every level.

 

[utvolpj]

If there are logistic issues, there's a reason to put together a strategy and delay at least. Logistics need to be better or a sweep of the higher ups to cripple the Taliban just before heading out so they aren't the threat they are now. Something besides this. This is mismanaged at every level.

I didn't say it wasn't messed up. I was responding to the idea that Trump had 4yrs but maybe had a good reason to stay. This needed to be done and the country was going to fall apart no matter what

 

[InVOLuntary]

Has anyone disagreed with the idea that we needed to get out? I think many past Presidents deserve some blame for the situation over there. The criticism is on the way the withdrawal was handled. That falls solely on this administration. You don't announce a day that you're pulling out. You stage that over months. The first thing you remove are your vulnerable human assets. You remove all your valuable military equipment, you remove troops in stages.

 

[BreatheUT]

I see a number of Mitch McConnell's on here virtue signaling with what they believe is objective talking points.

The truth is we don't know how Trump conducts this withdrawal.

A few things are fact:

Biden is POTUS.
* They botched the withdrawal.
* They started withdrawing the military before citizens.
* They did it in the middle of fighting season.
* They did it all at once instead of stages.
* It created an humanitarian crisis.
* They ignored the Taliban who were always going to be part of the government. That is why the Trump administration knew they had to involve them but the Trump administration were setting the terms.
* Now we are going back in with military in a more dangerous situation for our men and women.
* It's a global embarrassment.
* China, Russia and other adversaries are positioning themselves to benefit.
* America is less safe today.
* We have little intelligence apparatus over there now to monitor terrorist activity.
* All the buffoons responsible for this will possibly keep their jobs.
* Left wing propaganda media will do all they can to gloss this over eventhough they can't fully ignore the turd.

 

[Impossible Girl]

I would have preferred flexibility in the timeline vs hard date for a multitude of reasons, and what we are seeing now is one of those reasons. I’ve already harped about the lack of preparedness and contingency plans for any eventuality. This withdrawal was a complete bush league, amateur operation start to finish. We needed to leave, though. I just can’t believe the Afghan Army we trained had zero fight in them. We probably knew that though and a lot of this is on them for not having the will. Shameful all around.

Not surprised at all. It’s the US military war tech that kept the Taliban at bay. When you can send a drone to pinpoint take out a Taliban convoy, it makes a difference. When you pull out all intelligence support and bail, and are left with conventional weaponry, it’s all about resolve.

 

[rjd970]

I see a number of Mitch McConnell's on here virtue signaling with what they believe is objective talking points.

The truth is we don't know how Trump conducts this withdrawal.

A few things are fact:

Biden is POTUS.
* They botched the withdrawal.
* They started withdrawing the military before citizens.
* They did it in the middle of fighting season.
* They did it all at once instead of stages.
* It created an humanitarian crisis.
* They ignored the Taliban who were always going to be part of the government. That is why the Trump administration knew they had to involve them but the Trump administration were setting the terms.
* Now we are going back in with military in a more dangerous situation for our men and women.
* It's a global embarrassment.
* China, Russia and other adversaries are positioning themselves to benefit.
* America is less safe today.
* We have little intelligence apparatus over there now to monitor terrorist activity.
* All the buffoons responsible for this will possibly keep their jobs.
* Left wing propaganda media will do all they can to gloss this over eventhough they can't fully ignore the turd.

Hard to disagree with most of this. However the bold is patently false. I know for a fact the withdrawal started about 6-12 months ago.

 

[MG1968]

He had four years to do it, and didn't.

Obama had 8. Biden is POTUS now and armchair quarterbacking the past is pointless.

 

[Weezy]

I don't think we could've kept Bagram. I wouldn't want to be completely surrounded by Taliban controlled territory with no surge to accompany it to take territory. It looked like we didn't leave much as far as weapons there. The only thing I would have done differently is leave the embassy the same night we left Bagram. I understand not taking Afghan supporters out. You had to have some hope that after 20 years the installed government would hold. And your Afghan supporters would need to stay there to ensure that. I assume that's why we left the embassy as well.

I just don't see how this ends differently with any president. I guess the planet needs a **** hole that attracts the worst of the worst.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

Biden is POTUS.
* They botched the withdrawal.
* They started withdrawing the military before citizens.
* They did it in the middle of fighting season.
.

Why this aspect of it wasn’t more strategically planned surprised me as well. I see all these videos of these guys rolling into towns on motorcycles and packed 15 deep on the back of Nissan trucks. If we choose to do this in the Winter or even beginning in November a lot of these guys coming in can’t go through the passes or at the very least they are slowed down. The end result may have been inevitable, but the speed at which things fell apart could’ve slowed if the timing had been different .

 

[rjd970]

Has anyone disagreed with the idea that we needed to get out? I think many past Presidents deserve some blame for the situation over there. The criticism is on the way the withdrawal was handled. That falls solely on this administration. You don't announce a day that you're pulling out.

When did we do that and what was the date?

You stage that over months. The first thing you remove are your vulnerable human assets. You remove all your valuable military equipment, you remove troops in stages.

We did.

Look, there is a lot the administration did wrong and the intelligence services royally missed on this one. However, there seems to be a lot of military experts on here spouting opinions that don't have the facts right.

 

[BreatheUT]

Hard to disagree with most of this. However the bold is patently false. I know for a fact the withdrawal started about 6-12 months ago.

I am talking about what we've seen in the last 30-45 days. The issue is not 1 year ago or even 6 months ago.

 

[hog88]

I don't think we could've kept Bagram. I wouldn't want to be completely surrounded by Taliban controlled territory with no surge to accompany it to take territory. It looked like we didn't leave much as far as weapons there. The only thing I would have done differently is leave the embassy the same night we left Bagram. I understand not taking Afghan supporters out. You had to have some hope that after 20 years the installed government would hold. And your Afghan supporters would need to stay there to ensure that. I assume that's why we left the embassy as well.

I just don't see how this ends differently with any president. I guess the planet needs a **** hole that attracts the worst of the worst.

The optics would have been 1000x better had we already gotten all of our civilians out prior to the troops leaving. Then once the taliban started broadcasting from our embassy we hit it with a couple MOABs. Screen goes black....

 

[rjd970]

I am talking about what we've seen in the last 30-45 days. The issue is not 1 year ago or even 6 months ago.

That is like saying we crossed the finish line all at once, but lets disregard the long road and preparation it took to get there. The drawdown and withdrawal has been happening for the last year. The closure of FOB's has been methodical and planned. It started under Trump and Biden continued it. To say we just decided a month ago to leave and announce it is false. I'm sorry, it just is.

 

[Velo Vol]

Has anyone disagreed with the idea that we needed to get out?

Yes.

 

[05_never_again]

That is like saying we crossed the finish line all at once, but lets disregard the long road and preparation it took to get there. The drawdown and withdrawal has been happening for the last year. The closure of FOB's has been methodical and planned. It started under Trump and Biden continued it. To say we just decided a month ago to leave and announce it is false. I'm sorry, it just is.

The final part of the withdrawal was always going to be messy as long as we were leaving without a viable government in place.

I've seen comments in here to the effect of "we should have thousands of troops surrounding the airport so those planes could leave." OK, what about when those thousands of troops would be leaving the country themselves?

 

[n_huffhines]

The good news is we've learned our lesson. No more limited wars on foreign soil.

I care but further intervention is not the solution. GTFO and help as many people as possible who helped us to GTFO too.

 

[Septic]

I think this is the reason Trump never left--he was afraid of seeing the TV images we're seeing now.

You believe that Trump had the foresight to see anything past what was occurring in real time? I don't.

 

[Wireless1]

Do you think the current president should have at least evacuated the Americans before he left the rest to slaughter? What about the Afganis that helped us? What about our weapons? It's 100% **** show that falls squarely on the shoulders of this administration. He should be removed from office before he can do any more damage. The guy's a complete vegetable.

We know he's a vegetable, and did when he was elected, the greater damage, and the group that needs to be ousted are his advisors. Has a single one resigned or come out like the original crew did against Trump? This is on that incompetent crew.

 

[Weezy]

Russia's embassy is staying. China will actively work with the Taliban. If we just abandoned our embassy altogether, we would have been calling it a loss before the installed security forces ever had a chance. In hindsight, maybe we should have because they folded faster than fast. But provided we don't lose anybody here, I understand leaving a skeleton crew at the embassy.

 

[BreatheUT]

When did we do that and what was the date?



We did.

Look, there is a lot the administration did wrong and the intelligence services royally missed on this one. However, there seems to be a lot of military experts on here spouting opinions that don't have the facts right.

I'm going by what I've seen and heard from the experts and I have watched and listened to a lot. The consensus seems to be that this was botched by the Biden administration but it's just that some are trying to find a way to tie it to Trump. Obama never had a plan either after we basically stopped day to day combat operations in 2014 I believe.

The Trump administration started working on a plan but Biden got elected. They signed dozens of other executive orders immediately (that have been botched as well) but is playing whataboutism on this issue. This is one the American mainstream media can't ignore because it's a global failure.

 

[volbound1700]

I point the finger at them all, and the conventional foreign policy wisdom of our elites. We didn't lose this war because our culture is bad or anything else.

Afghanistan was an unwinnable war and this was known from the beginning, at least if the definition of "winning" was rebuilding the country and leaving it with a modern, Western-style democracy. Afghanistan is one of those locales on earth where I think it is impossible to have that. It's called "the graveyard of empires" for a reason.

What do you do when they attack you again? It is going to happen. If not them, then someone else.

The World now knows (and really has known since Vietnam) the playbook on how to beat the USA. Just get USA into these long Guerilla Wars and they pack up and leave. How long, until local groups start doing that to the USA here on our soil? (Homegrown terrorists for example).