Taliban Taking Over Afghanistan - Does anyone care?

Do you care?

  • No

    Votes: 40 23.3%

  • Hell No

    Votes: 47 27.3%

  • Yes, we should invade and send in Troops

    Votes: 25 14.5%

  • I like Pie

    Votes: 60 34.9%
  • Total voters
    172
#1,801
#1,801
BowlBrother85 said:
The United States did provide military support to the Taliban in the early 1980's when the CIA provided arms to Afghans resisting the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. The United States also assisted the Taliban in their efforts to gather radicalized Muslims from around the world to join their fight against the Soviet Union. Osama bin Laden was one of the main players in organizing training camps for those volunteers. Back then, bin Laden was considered an ally and a hero by the CIA.
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Entirely false. The Taliban didn't even exist until after the Soviets withdrew from Afghanistan in 1989 and they came to power during the Afghan Civil War. Sure, some of the Taliban leaders that took over were with the Mujahedeen during the Soviet invasion, but you can't connect the dots and say the US provided military support to the Taliban since it didn't even exist.

Furthermore, it's unfounded speculation that the CIA bankrolled bin Laden or was considered an ally. He (allegedly) considered us helpful in the fight against the Soviets, but he was never directly used by the US Government.
 
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#1,802
#1,802
landscapingvol said:
That's not really true, the RVN had their supplies cut by the US government to nearly non-existent. Most heavy weapons and planes sat idle. The US pulled out of Vietnam in March, 1973, Saigon didn't fall until April, 1975. Now don't get me wrong the South Vietnamese didn't hold out but there is a huge difference between a little over 2 years and a handful of days.
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BB types would much rather blame Nixon for the collapse in Viet Nam than on what Cooper and Church sold congress. It's really hard to continue a war without munitions.
 
#1,804
#1,804
volinbham said:
the manner of the withdrawal and Biden's comments last month suggest they believed the Afghan govt/military would maintain control for some period of time (not sure they believed what they were saying)

it was either a terrible miscalculation and intelligence failure or it was a cynical bet to get the official end done for 9/11.

there are already indicators that this wasn't the surprise that is being claimed.

we certainly need to know why this happened so we can learn where our weaknesses are (intelligence failures or political failures)

my money is on politics overriding intelligence and it is backfiring with terrible results
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Couple of things I'd like to expound on in this post.

Biden's comments last month were not someone who foresaw this coming at all. He was fairly adamant about the Taliban not gaining the territory quickly and pretty much scoffed at the idea the Afghan Government and ANA would fold like a wet paper towel. That isn't faulty intelligence or a cynical bet. His mannerisms made it seem like we were leaving the Stan in good hands.

Oops...

Now, about the "indicators" and in Biden's and the Intel community's defense, there are always the contrary reports out there written by some low level sod that comes up with the exact conditions we're seeing today. Call it a "minority report" if you will, but some analyst out there saw this exact scenario coming about and probably wrote up a report that was circle filed by a superior as being too outlandish.

Oops...

But yes, I wholeheartedly agree with politics overriding intelligence in this case. Biden needed a foreign policy "win" under his belt and leaving Afghanistan on relatively stable terms and withdrawing the last of the US Forces would have given him that "win." Now, if the fighting would have broken out six months to a year down the road? Well, it's Afghanistan and they love fighting. But his "win" backfired bigly when the Taliban came out of the hills and started going after the ANA who had zero will to fight.
 
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#1,806
#1,806
red butler said:
I’m not so sure about that. The Army will probably be able to get everyone else out, but those last flights are going to be tricky. Who’s going to provide security when the last soldiers get on the plane? Even if the taliban give them a pass, the civilians are going to be all over that plane. I don’t think helicopters are an option either due to distance.
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CV-22s could do the mission and get into Pakistan if they would allow them to land. The big helos (-53s and -47s) could make the distance if they aren't loaded down heavily and get refueled at Kabul Airport.

However, the problem comes from getting those assets in place quickly.
 
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#1,807
#1,807
What A Difference A Day Makes...In Afghanistan | ZeroHedge

BEFORE:
CNN1.jpeg


AFTER:
CNN3.jpg
 
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#1,812
#1,812
Grand Vol said:
CV-22s could do the mission and get into Pakistan if they would allow them to land. The big helos (-53s and -47s) could make the distance if they aren't loaded down heavily and get refueled at Kabul Airport.

However, the problem comes from getting those assets in place quickly.
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There were at least a couple 47s still there earlier in the evacuation and I saw some apaches buzzing the runways today. Do you think Pakistan would let them in? I haven’t followed that relationship in a while. Maybe they have a contingency in place. Surely they wouldn’t leave apaches to the taliban.
 
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#1,813
#1,813
red butler said:
There were at least a couple 47s still there earlier in the evacuation and I saw some apaches buzzing the runways today. Do you think Pakistan would let them in? I haven’t followed that relationship in a while. Maybe they have a contingency in place. Surely they wouldn’t leave apaches to the taliban.
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The -47s were being used to shuttle personnel from the Embassy to the airport where they loaded onto C-17s for the flight out.

And no, I doubt they would leave the Apaches behind.
 
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#1,815
#1,815
LAVol1 said:
We should not be there. BUT, the way we withdrew is a total disgrace. We have left THOUSANDS of Americans at risk. We have abandoned people who we vowed to take care of (interpreters and people who aided our efforts who will be killed and tortured by the Taliban). No one in foreign countries will trust the U.S. again. The irreparable damage done was unnecessary. Poor judgement and hubris caused this debacle. Biden just proved his incompetence. Even now, the Chinese are pumping propaganda at Taiwan saying America will abandon them as well. What a cluster**k!
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Makes America look like a b**ch that will leave you at the alter…. Or drink the last bit of orange juice and only leave a swallow in the container
 
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#1,819
#1,819
Grand Vol said:
Entirely false. The Taliban didn't even exist until after the Soviets withdrew from Afghanistan in 1989 and they came to power during the Afghan Civil War. Sure, some of the Taliban leaders that took over were with the Mujahedeen during the Soviet invasion, but you can't connect the dots and say the US provided military support to the Taliban since it didn't even exist.

Furthermore, it's unfounded speculation that the CIA bankrolled bin Laden or was considered an ally. He (allegedly) considered us helpful in the fight against the Soviets, but he was never directly used by the US Government.
Click to expand...
It's more complicated than this... Technically, you are correct that the Taliban didn't emerge until 1994 in Kandahar, Afghanistan. However, "the dots" are easily connected between Osama bin Laden and aid from the CIA in the 1980's. He was never directly used by the United States government because the CIA doesn't operate that way.
 
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#1,820
#1,820
Here's the thing I keep saying. The Taliban does not need nor do they probably want a repeat of Tehran 1979 like a lot of people are saying. They've won. They can go about their day and leave the fleeing Americans in peace because any hostility towards Americans, Brits or any other allied force still there invites retaliation and us staying longer. They know this and are being smart by not attacking any foreign national at the moment.

There is no need for the beheadings or putting the embassy under siege or hostage scenarios like a lot of the Chicken Littles are claiming could happen since the infidel dogs are scurrying away giving them huge wins in the military and political realm.
 
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#1,822
#1,822
BowlBrother85 said:
It's more complicated than this... Technically, you are correct that the Taliban didn't emerge until 1994 in Kandahar, Afghanistan. However, "the dots" are easily connected between Osama bin Laden and aid from the CIA in the 1980's.
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Prove it.

All that money and weaponry was funneled through the ISI and Pakistan. Yeah, bin Laden and future Taliban leaders might have been recipients of said aid after going through several middle men, but to say it was directly "dotted" from the USG is not being truthful.

Learn your history.
 
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#1,823
#1,823
Grand Vol said:
Prove it.

All that money and weaponry was funneled through the ISI and Pakistan. Yeah, bin Laden and future Taliban leaders might have been recipients of said aid after going through several middle men, but to say it was directly "dotted" from the USG is not being truthful.

Learn your history.
Click to expand...
It's common knowledge.
 
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