Tankers Attacked In Gulf: Price of Oil Up

#1,253
#1,253
For months Trump had been bragging about how his sanctions were really shaking up Iran.

Funny that we need new sanctions, and that he's unable to explain why.

 
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#1,254
Velo Vol said:
Trump withdrew from the JCPOA. As of yet there's no framework to replace it. We've gotten no allies onboard to go along with whatever the new framework might be.

Are we supposed to be negotiating with the Iranian government right now? Or are we waiting for something or other to happen and then comes the golden moment for a new deal?

Is America committed to maintaining free shipping through the Gulf or nah?

Not sure what secret facts are out there that will come to light and then suddenly we'll all say, "Oh, I get it!"
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Sheer conjecture, speculations. I always assume that people in high positions have basic common sense including Trump. You are concluding he does not. I think you are wrong but realize that you hope you are right. The complexity of a situation must be enormous yet it's black and white to you.
 
#1,256
#1,256
IPleadInsanity said:
The complexity of a situation must be enormous yet it's black and white to you.
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What's black and white? I'm simply asking what the strategy to get back to the negotiating table is. And how a new deal would be fundamentally different than the one that was already in place as far as preventing nuclear weapons.
 
#1,258
#1,258
Velo Vol said:
What's black and white? I'm simply asking what the strategy to get back to the negotiating table is. And how a new deal would be fundamentally different than the one that was already in place as far as preventing nuclear weapons.
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How could anyone relate a strategy without the details of the event. We have spies on the ground, there is a group against the regime looking to topple it, Iran could have made a last second move to make sure there were casualties at every potential site, the Mullas could have sent a message thru back channels, the list of possibilities is endless.

The deal in place did not prevent them from gaining nuclear weapons, thats the difference. There may be no strategy to get back to the negotiating table. Leave that to them, we have time on our side.
 
#1,259
#1,259
IPleadInsanity said:
How could anyone relate a strategy without the details of the event. We have spies on the ground, there is a group against the regime looking to topple it, Iran could have made a last second move to make sure there were casualties at every potential site, the Mullas could have sent a message thru back channels, the list of possibilities is endless.
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So regime change is our goal?

Trump's tweet above says it's only to stop terrorism and nuclear weapons. Very simple!
 
#1,262
#1,262
Velo Vol said:
Trump withdrew from the JCPOA. As of yet there's no framework to replace it. We've gotten no allies onboard to go along with whatever the new framework might be.

Are we supposed to be negotiating with the Iranian government right now? Or are we waiting for something or other to happen and then comes the golden moment for a new deal?

Is America committed to maintaining free shipping through the Gulf or nah?

Not sure what secret facts are out there that will come to light and then suddenly we'll all say, "Oh, I get it!"
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Just speculation but I believe Trump felt when the US pulled out of JCPOA the entire thing would collapse. That hasn't happened and it looks like Germany, France and GB have no intentions of backing out. China and Russia certainly won't. Wherever this leads, for better or worse it is on Trump. He seems a bit indecisive about things at the moment. If he starts a war he will not likely get international support and he can probably kiss 2020 goodby. Sanctions sometimes work and sometimes they don't. I wouldn't underestimate Iran's resolve weather this round.
 
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#1,264
#1,264
Velo Vol said:
So regime change is our goal?

Trump's tweet above says it's only to stop terrorism and nuclear weapons. Very simple!
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I sure he would support regime change if the people rose up against the Mullas. I would. This is the only reason for sanctions IMO because these people will never negotiate to stop terrorism, and if they did could they be trusted. Regime change is the only solution here other than war.
 
#1,265
#1,265
IPleadInsanity said:
I sure he would support regime change if the people rose up against the Mullas. I would. This is the only reason for sanctions IMO because these people will never negotiate to stop terrorism, and if they did could they be trusted. Regime change is the only solution here other than war.
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How's that worked out for us in the past in the ME?
 
#1,269
#1,269
lawgator1 said:
Criticizing him for calling it off by claiming he did not know the casualty figures until the last ten minutes, when such is apparently another whopper by him, is not rooting for him to fail. I think the vast majority of people agree with the RESULT of his decision, but that is not the same thing as questioning the way that it occurred.
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Now wait... what the hell makes you think he was lying?

And what difference does it make how he arrived at the correct decision?
 
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#1,270
#1,270
Rasputin_Vol said:
Now wait... what the hell makes you think he was lying?

And what difference does it make how he arrived at the correct decision?
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Numerous and experienced officials in such matters say that casualty estimates would have been a part of each option laid out to him, from the start. Not as the jets were fired up.

It's not an "Oh, by the way" kind of a thing. Their explanation convinces me that there are two possibilites: either Trump has the most incompetent military advisers in history, times a million, or he fabricated the explanation to cover for a change of heart at the last moment.
 
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#1,271
#1,271
lawgator1 said:
Numerous and experienced officials in such matters say that casualty estimates would have been a part of each option laid out to him, from the start. Not as the jets were fired up.

It's not an "Oh, by the way" kind of a thing. Their explanation convinces me that there are two possibilites: either Trump has the most incompetent military advisers in history, times a million, or he fabricated the explanation to cover for a change of heart at the last moment.
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Or Option 3, he was given the casualty numbers the first time and maybe wanted them run by him again for a an opportunity to reconsider.
 
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#1,272
#1,272
lawgator1 said:
Numerous and experienced officials in such matters say that casualty estimates would have been a part of each option laid out to him, from the start. Not as the jets were fired up.

It's not an "Oh, by the way" kind of a thing. Their explanation convinces me that there are two possibilites: either Trump has the most incompetent military advisers in history, times a million, or he fabricated the explanation to cover for a change of heart at the last moment.
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I've thought from the start of all of this that this was purely a 2020 political move by Trump. I surely don't believe Trump cares about 150 folks in Iran. Seemed too convenient to have all this war mongering talk from Trump to have Trump swoop in at the "last minute" to save the day. I'm glad he made the decision not to launch strikes, but I don't think for a second he did it for random Iranian or American lives for that matter. It is all about fueling his ego and showing he is the "strong" man, "decisive", "man in charge" to feed his narcissism.
 
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#1,274
zeppelin128 said:
I've thought from the start of all of this that this was purely a 2020 political move by Trump. I surely don't believe Trump cares about 150 folks in Iran. Seemed too convenient to have all this war mongering talk from Trump to have Trump swoop in at the "last minute" to save the day. I'm glad he made the decision not to launch strikes, but I don't think for a second he did it for random Iranian or American lives for that matter. It is all about fueling his ego and showing he is the "strong" man, "decisive", "man in charge" to feed his narcissism.
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Who cares? He did the right thing. I mean Jesus folks. He does what it appears you all want but you can’t just say good job.
 
#1,275
#1,275
volfanhill said:
Who cares? He did the right thing. I mean Jesus folks. He does what it appears you all want but you can’t just say good job.
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For about the 20th time -- I congratulate him for the right decision.

Doesn't mean I think much of how it all went down. At absolute best, ABSOLUTE BEST, it's a stark example of his inexperience and mercurial nature, especially when the pressure is on, it's real and it's not a TV moment for him to manipulate.
 
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