Tennessee has only one black assistant coach?!

[orangepit]

Last time I checked, racial diversity doesn't exactly happen on the field. You play the best

Same goes with jobs. You should hire the best. When you fall into the trap that you have to hire a particular race for statistical purposes, you may pass on a more qualified person. That's referred to as reverse discrimination.

West Tennessee.. Lmao

 

[GoVols15]

WTF?! My OP isn't racist. This is from Evan Woodbury on GoVolsXtra.

"The only current assistant coach without previous ties to Jones is linebackers coach Tommy Thigpen. Thigpen is also the lone black assistant coach on the staff, so many believe the next hire will be black.

Tennessee is the only team in the SEC with fewer than three black assistants. Most teams have four or more."

I guess that's racist too?

You guessed correctly, it is racist and Evan is an idiot for publishing a racist story!! Why would you not give the job to a white, Indian, Asian or anybody else if they are more qualified? I'm so sick of the PC crowd!!

 

[GoVols15]

Last time I checked, racial diversity doesn't exactly happen on the field. You play the best

Same goes with jobs. You should hire the best. When you fall into the trap that you have to hire a particular race for statistical purposes, you may pass on a more qualified person. That's referred to as reverse discrimination.

Good post! I guess the NBA and NFL is racist for the high number of black players! I guess the NHL is racist for all the white players! Good grief, where has common sense gone!

 

[GoVols15]

It isn't racist to expect a workplace to look like our society, instead of the White segment of our society. The latter is not necessarily wrong, but it does give the appearance of being wrong, especially when there are so many Black athletes in sports.

I doubt that Coach Butch is blind or indifferent to the need for racial diversity.

Excuse me, I thought CBJ was hired to win football games. I'm sorry I didn't realize his duty was racial diversity. Maybe he needs to quit recruiting black players and focus his attention more on Hispanics, Caucasians, Indians, Asian, Asian Pacific, and don't forget women. While we're at it focus on gays and transsexuals. Oh I almost forgot the disabled!

 

[GoVols15]

I don't trust corporations to begin with, too many lies over too many years. However, it may be hard to recruit African-Americans to Knoxville due to local attitude. I am a friend attended the Cincinnati-Tennessee game. Prior to the game, we went into a hotel (Hilton?), it was the one that is very close to the free game day parking garage next to Marketplace. Just killing time and planned to buy some Starbucks coffee. The woman manning the coffee counter looked at my friend is in a rather hostile manner. He mentioned it, I looked and caught it. She approach an elderly security guy and pointed at us. He came over and asked us my friend to leave, said nothing to me. My friend was followed around in the few stores we visited in Knoxville that day too. But he's cool. He started picking up stuff he was buying and asking the followers to hold it for him. Hilarious. One actually did and kept following us. Now, on a positive note, he really likes Pete's where we eat breakfast when we hit Knoxville on game days. They behave the way some folks around Knoxville do. He loves going to games but mentions how he doesn't feel really welcome in town. Doesn't a big fuss about it, just mentioned it about twice all told I think. So maybe corporations have a problem due to the atmosphere of Knoxville. I really don't know as I don't live there but I wonder.

So I guess you trust the government more? OK!

 

[VolNExile]

I don't trust corporations to begin with, too many lies over too many years. However, it may be hard to recruit African-Americans to Knoxville due to local attitude. I am a friend attended the Cincinnati-Tennessee game. Prior to the game, we went into a hotel (Hilton?), it was the one that is very close to the free game day parking garage next to Marketplace. Just killing time and planned to buy some Starbucks coffee. The woman manning the coffee counter looked at my friend is in a rather hostile manner. He mentioned it, I looked and caught it. She approach an elderly security guy and pointed at us. He came over and asked us my friend to leave, said nothing to me...

Seriously? Did this really happen? Why didn't you or your friend go straight to Hilton management?

I'm sorry; maybe I don't live in Knoxville anymore, but I'm struggling to believe this happened at a Hilton. Somewhere else, OK maybe; there are still fools all over the country (all over the world, in fact.) But a Hilton? Where they have black guests, and black managers, and are very, very sensitive to their reputation among the business community and general high-flyers?

I'm not naive; maybe they do have a coffee lady and "elderly security guy" who are stuck in the fifties. But if this happened, you should have gone straight to management to let them know. Because they value their image, and they don't need to have crap like this happening.

Frankly, I can't imagine why you didn't, even though you were just out to kick back and have a good time before the game.

Just saying. :hi:

btw, FWIW, the things I've read about the difficulty recruiting black professionals to the area focus more on the general lack of a social and cultural scene (per the writers) than overt racist hostility as you describe.

 

[Vol Main]

Last time I checked, racial diversity doesn't exactly happen on the field. You play the best

Same goes with jobs. You should hire the best. When you fall into the trap that you have to hire a particular race for statistical purposes, you may pass on a more qualified person. That's referred to as reverse discrimination.

And when you fall into the trap that you have to hire only White coaches except for one token Black, you may pass on a more qualified person. That's called stupid.

 

[VolNExile]

Consider what the full and true job description of a college coach might be. Is it only coaching the X's and O's? or is it also the perceived off-field leadership stuff that many parents and recruits think about?

If the full job description includes the ability to successfully recruit among various social, racial, and cultural backgrounds, and if being a member of a minority group improves your ability to recruit, would that not be part of being "the best"?

We can wring our hands and deplore all day long the apparent but very real tendency for many (certainly not all) minority families to want to have someone from the same background to be part of the coaching staff, in hopes that this person will serve as a mentor and role model for their son/ daughter. But if in fact this is happening, it is certainly fair to say that those who have better success rates in recruiting minority athletes have a higher qualification for the job.

Recruiting is like sales: good salespeople, who can document that they are more successful in sales, get higher salaries, and why not? So if recruiting (= sales) is part of the job of coaching, successful recruiters should be considered as "more highly qualified" as coaches than those who can't bring in top-notch recruits.

Which kind of gets us back to the whole Jay Graham thing: was he a minority coach who failed to deliver in recruiting, especially minority recruiting? If so, he might have been great with the X's and O's, but not so great in the recruiting area, and therefore, he wasn't as good of a coach as many of us thought he was. --just a thought.

 

[VolNExile]

I just stumbled across this on the high school forum. Todd Kelly Jr. is a rising senior at Webb, and his daddy played for UT in the early 90's. BTW, Todd JR has a 4.1, and as a parent of former Webbies, I can tell you that that's not so easy to do.

At any rate, just a reinforcement for what I wrote that families look at more than win/ loss records and chance for NFL prospects when evaluation colleges:

Knoxville, Tennessee safety Todd Kelly knows the Tennessee football program better than most, but a new coaching staff makes things just a little bit different these days for the Webb School standout. He was on campus this past weekend for Tennessee's Junior day, but what were his thoughts?

"Going in I hadn't met the entire staff, but I had heard a lot about coach Jones," Kelly said. "My family and I sat down and talked with him and it wasn't just about football. It was about life and other things. At the end of the day, I got a good feel for what was changing at Tennessee and it was a good visit."

Several prospects and some of the freshly signed future Vols have talked about the change in culture on Rocky Top. It's something that Kelly noticed and was happy to see...

 

[1972 Grad]

Consider what the full and true job description of a college coach might be. Is it only coaching the X's and O's? or is it also the perceived off-field leadership stuff that many parents and recruits think about?

If the full job description includes the ability to successfully recruit among various social, racial, and cultural backgrounds, and if being a member of a minority group improves your ability to recruit, would that not be part of being "the best"?

We can wring our hands and deplore all day long the apparent but very real tendency for many (certainly not all) minority families to want to have someone from the same background to be part of the coaching staff, in hopes that this person will serve as a mentor and role model for their son/ daughter. But if in fact this is happening, it is certainly fair to say that those who have better success rates in recruiting minority athletes have a higher qualification for the job.

Recruiting is like sales: good salespeople, who can document that they are more successful in sales, get higher salaries, and why not? So if recruiting (= sales) is part of the job of coaching, successful recruiters should be considered as "more highly qualified" as coaches than those who can't bring in top-notch recruits.

Which kind of gets us back to the whole Jay Graham thing: was he a minority coach who failed to deliver in recruiting, especially minority recruiting? If so, he might have been great with the X's and O's, but not so great in the recruiting area, and therefore, he wasn't as good of a coach as many of us thought he was. --just a thought.

The Bleacher Report listed the top 10 recruiters in college football. They had a tie, so they actually listed eleven. Eight were white. Three were black. That is probably pretty close to the racial makeup of most staffs. It would appear from this article that the recruits don't place much emphasis on the race of the recruiter. I hope that is true.

 

[CountVolcula]

And when you fall into the trap that you have to hire only White coaches except for one token Black, you may pass on a more qualified person. That's called stupid.

Maybe the one black coach wasnt a "token". Maybe he was qualified for the position


Also, didn't Tennessee extend the HC job to a black coach and he turned us down?

 

[Dr Dread]

Last time I checked, racial diversity doesn't exactly happen on the field. You play the best

Same goes with jobs. You should hire the best. When you fall into the trap that you have to hire a particular race for statistical purposes, you may pass on a more qualified person. That's referred to as reverse discrimination.

Nobody is saying that you should hire a less qualified coach just because he's black. If Gruden agreed to come on board to fill the slot, the h**l with diversity, bring him on. What I'm saying is that with the number of EQUALLY qualified black coaches out there, the program benefits by dealing with the lack of diversity.

And before some smarta** assumes I'm saying equal to Gruden, by equal, I mean equal to the white coaches that would be willing to fill the slot.

 

[Nashvol2]

Nobody is saying that you should hire a less qualified coach just because he's black. If Gruden agreed to come on board to fill the slot, the h**l with diversity, bring him on. What I'm saying is that with the number of EQUALLY qualified black coaches out there, the program benefits by dealing with the lack of diversity.

And before some smarta** assumes I'm saying equal to Gruden, by equal, I mean equal to the white coaches that would be willing to fill the slot.

Exactly. Way to many people getting their panties in a wad over this.

 

[Vol Main]

Maybe the one black coach wasnt a "token". Maybe he was qualified for the position

Also, didn't Tennessee extend the HC job to a black coach and he turned us down?

You are right on both points. I am just countering the man's post by stating the obvious about our racist past, "lest we forget."

 

[WoodsmanVol]

So you're saying there's more blacks & other minorities in the US?

Snide attitude aside, that might be true if the total number of undocumented sneak ins are counted. But what I was referring to about the lies comment was something else. People have a tendency to hunt and employe justifications for what they want, believe, or prefer. If none exists they will invent one. I see posts here that give valid reasons for having Blacks on the coaching staff. Then I see the justifying counter arguments. It's just, "Here we go again."

When power is wield by a faction, those lacking power cooperate to achieve goals otherwise out of reach if they don't. Whether it's a woman who can't reach a career goals unless she sleeps with a supervisor. Or a football player wanting to reach the pro level but can't without attending a matinee program run by "the man." So statistics doesn't ever tell the complete story, and partial truths are still lies.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

The statistics are taken from the 2010 U.S. Census. If you have a beef about the numbers, please take it up with them.

If I threw mine in the waste basket. How many others did too? And serious, man, it doesn't matter who is saying this stuff. Besides, my post was a snide remark meant to be funny in an offhanded way. I didn't take my own post seriously so am surprised you do.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

So I guess you trust the government more? OK!

Interesting, you either can't read or think, maybe neither. I actually stated why I THINK corporations have trouble recruiting African-Americans. That being due to local attitudes I have directly witnessed while in Knoxville. And all you can come up with is a mindless, "So I guess you trust the government more? OK!'? No wonder so many other team fans consider Vols fans brainless wonders.You certainly give incontestable credence to the perception.

And FYI, I am among many Americans who have lost trust in our corporations. They're greedy, care not for the customer beyond getting into our wallets, and lobby constantly for legislation that will give them more and more leverage against customers. They invest vast sums of money for producing merchandise jobs overseas to avoid USA taxes and paying USA level salaries, thus helping to wreck the economy. Many are now seeking ways to minimize or even avoid paying retiring workers their rightfully due pensions. And it gos on and on. But that's irrelevant to the fact I clearly stated why I doubted Knoxville corporations' ability to recruit African-American employees. It had naught to do with the government, which I happen to not trust either. I consider executive, legislative, and to a lesser extent, the judicial branches a bunch of elected snots who belong to corporations lock, stock, and barrel.

 

[CountVolcula]

You are right on both points. I am just countering the man's post by stating the obvious about our racist past, "lest we forget."

I apologize for the misunderstanding

 

[1972 Grad]

If I threw mine in the waste basket. How many others did too? And serious, man, it doesn't matter who is saying this stuff. Besides, my post was a snide remark meant to be funny in an offhanded way. I didn't take my own post seriously so am surprised you do.

My whole take on the subject was "tongue in cheek." I don't take very much seriously. I go by the old saying....."Don't sweat the small stuff. It's all small stuff."

 

[Vol Main]

I apologize for the misunderstanding

Apology accepted but not necessary. My post was a little provocative.

 

[BaldBiker]

I apologize for the misunderstanding

Apology accepted but not necessary. My post was a little provocative.

Wish more people could play nice like this on VN. :good!:

 

[FLVOL_79]

Every other member of the SEC has four or more black coaches and we're down to one.
Butch has the good 'ole boy network going. I'd say there's a 99.9 percent chance the new running backs coach is black and should be for multiple reasons all of which are legit.

Picking a person because of the color of their skin is never legit.

 

[Vol Main]

Picking a person because of the color of their skin is never legit.

The problem with that view is that a nearly all white staff appears like they were picked for the color of their skin. It's like I said earlier; it might not be wrong, but it does appear to be wrong. You can say that 80% of the best players are Black while 90% of the best coaches are White, but I just do not believe that is true.

I find it annoying when we recruit a White player and VN automatically trashes the guy because he is White. It happens all the time on VN. I also find it annoying when some Black coach is mentioned and VN loves him up, just because he is Black. That also happens all the time on VN; think KY's last coach. A lot of the anti-racism crowd are stinking out loud with their racism. All's I'm saying is that the numbers ought to pan out a little better than 80% or 90%.

 

[FLVOL_79]

The problem with that view is that a nearly all white staff appears like they were picked for the color of their skin. It's like I said earlier; it might not be wrong, but it does appear to be wrong. You can say that 90% of the best coaches are White guys, but I just do not believe that is true.

That doesn't make sense to me but I guess I'm just a "choose them based on merit" type of person. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion(s).

 

[Vol Main]

That doesn't make sense to me but I guess I'm just a "choose them based on merit" type of person. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion(s).

Maybe it makes more sense to me because I come from a place in time where White people did not hire Black people. In 1971 Tennessee, I recommended a Black friend of mine for a job in a large store where I worked. The guy was good as gold, but he did not get the job. When I asked him about it, he said "what do you think?" He had this pained look on his face, smiling as well as he could, like a mix between laughing and crying. I knew what he was telling me, that he did not get the job because he was Black, and my first reaction was that he was mistaken to feel that way. Then I thought about it, and I knew that he was 100% right. I'll never forget it.