That's racist!

#1,876
#1,876
NashVol11 said:
Yet the people on pedestals in the South aren't the slaves fighting for freedom, or the black people who were lynched and raped within that system; it's the soldiers who fought to keep it that way.
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Did you even see my above posts? Most of my black family members and friends (Yankee and southerner alike)couldn't care less about the statues. They are just carved rocks. It's white liberals who make a much bigger issue about it. Do they want them down? Sure. But is it a dire end all be all? No. That is a white liberal issue.
 
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#1,878
#1,878
NashVol11 said:
The pushback is in response to the idea that we can't fix anything else until the "community" is "fixed," or that we shouldn't try to progress toward justice for that community/the community isn't worthy of justice until it "fixes" itself.
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Nobody Nobody said that!
 
#1,879
#1,879
NashVol11 said:
If we think glorifying the Confederacy is wrong, why isn't that enough? Why does it have to be wrong AND important in the eyes of white people? Or wrong AND the biggest issue facing black people, wrong AND more devastating than black-on-black crime? If we have an opportunity to right a wrong, why not just do it instead of talking about how other opportunities would be better?
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Why is it wrong now but wasn't wrong during 8 years of Obama when he could have just stroked out an EO about it? Why is Pelosi just now having issues after 30 years of walking by the very same damn statues? Please provide a link to a MLK speech about statues needing to come down.

It's a smoke screen fire starter being used to further divisive agendas and create civil unrest.
 
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#1,880
#1,880
hog88 said:
So? All of those wrongs have been "righted". Removing monuments is helping no one.
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Remember what we said about differing opinions?

People think the statues don't matter. That's fine, I can understand why people think that. But if they don't matter, then there shouldn't be much resistance to removing them. And instead of going with "They don't matter, and everyone who thinks otherwise is wrong," maybe try assuming for once that people have good reasons for thinking they matter, and trying to learn about what those reasons are.
 
#1,881
#1,881
NashVol11 said:
Remember what we said about differing opinions?

People think the statues don't matter. That's fine, I can understand why people think that. But if they don't matter, then there shouldn't be much resistance to removing them. And instead of going with "They don't matter, and everyone who thinks otherwise is wrong," maybe try assuming for once that people have good reasons for thinking they matter, and trying to learn about what those reasons are.
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I'm waiting for you to give a good reason why they matter to some people.
 
#1,882
#1,882
DynaLo said:
Why is it wrong now but wasn't wrong during 8 years of Obama when he could have just stroked out an EO about it? Why is Pelosi just now having issues after 30 years of walking by the very same damn statues? Please provide a link to a MLK speech about statues needing to come down.

It's a smoke screen fire starter being used to further divisive agendas and create civil unrest.
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It's been wrong. As I said, there have been people working on this for decades. But nothing changes until the general public cares, and the general public doesn't care until something like Charlottesville happens, unfortunately. I know people accuse Trump of being a white supremacist and all that, but I don't think that this statue issue in particular really has much to do with who's in office.
 
#1,883
#1,883
NashVol11 said:
It's been wrong. As I said, there have been people working on this for decades. But nothing changes until the general public cares, and the general public doesn't care until something like Charlottesville happens, unfortunately. I know people accuse Trump of being a white supremacist and all that, but I don't think that this statue issue in particular really has much to do with who's in office.
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If people have been working on removing statues for decades why did they not take advantage of having Obama in office to bring it into the light. He had the platform, he could have spotlighted it as a way to heal and move forward, but they didn't and he didn't. It wasn't brought forward until it could polarize opposing sides and create discord to further political agendas.
 
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#1,884
#1,884
NashVol11 said:
It's been wrong. As I said, there have been people working on this for decades. But nothing changes until the general public cares, and the general public doesn't care until something like Charlottesville happens, unfortunately. I know people accuse Trump of being a white supremacist and all that, but I don't think that this statue issue in particular really has much to do with who's in office.
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The issues isn't even really about the statues. It's about the Democratic party continuing with their resistance they promised since Hillary lost. They are using their propaganda arm (MSNBC, CNN, etc) to stir the masses and their militant wing (Antifa) to sensationalize smaller issues into violent matters. This is the modern Democratic party, sore losers.
 
#1,885
#1,885
NashVol11 said:
People probably said this about slavery, too; "Why now, in 1860? Black people have been 'fine' with it for 200 years."

Nothing is an issue, until it is. Many have been fighting to get rid of these statues for decades, but didn't have a platform to effect meaningful change. Now, thanks to Charlottesville, they do, and I don't think people want to pass up that opportunity and go back to being ignored again.
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Read up on why Missouri Compromise. Slavery was a political issue with contention on both sides 40 years before the Civil War.

That said, I don't have a problem with the statues coming down, but I do have problems with mobs tearing them down.
 
#1,887
#1,887
NashVol11 said:
Most people have been doing that. That's not a reason to invalidate everything else
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Yet I haven't yet heard you mention internalizing these issues yourself. What is your take on black vs black crime? How should it be fixed? We understand how the trivial stuff gets fixed. White devils have to bend the knee and express unending sympathy and regret for the past. But how do you personally help fix the big problems?
 
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#1,888
#1,888
Madscientistvol said:
Read up on why Missouri Compromise. Slavery was a political issue with contention on both sides 40 years before the Civil War.

That said, I don't have a problem with the statues coming down, but I do have problems with mobs tearing them down.
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This. Put them in a museum or at one of the many historic battlefields. This should be a non-issue but the media and others won't let it be.
 
#1,889
#1,889
SamRebel35 said:
Yet I haven't yet heard you mention internalizing these issues yourself. What is your take on black vs black crime? How should it be fixed? We understand how the trivial stuff gets fixed. White devils have to bend the knee and express unending sympathy and regret for the past. But how do you personally help fix the big problems?
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Maybe they are using the Dave Ramsey approach. Tackle the small stuff first and work up to the more important stuff.
 
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#1,890
#1,890
DynaLo said:
If people have been working on removing statues for decades why did they not take advantage of having Obama in office to bring it into the light. He had the platform, he could have spotlighted it as a way to heal and move forward, but they didn't and he didn't. It wasn't brought forward until it could polarize opposing sides and create discord to further political agendas.
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They did. A guy I know who has been a leader in that area worked very closely with Obama. But it's not as easy as "stroking out an EO" removing all Confederate statues before you have public opinion on your side. That would likely have created a result much uglier than Charlottesville.
 
#1,896
#1,896
NashVol11 said:
They did. A guy I know who has been a leader in that area worked very closely with Obama. But it's not as easy as "stroking out an EO" removing all Confederate statues before you have public opinion on your side. That would likely have created a result much uglier than Charlottesville.
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The platform was Hope & Change and a large portion of this country was ready for it. The statue removals could have been openly discussed as progressive movement towards that goal. Presented properly, it's likely that a very large percentage of the population would have supported their removal and relocation.

It didn't get brought up in public discourse then because it didn't serve as a polarizing topic of discord. It does now due the violence and lawlessness associated with it.
 
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#1,897
#1,897
DynaLo said:
The platform was Hope & Change and a large portion of this country was ready for it. The statue removals could have been openly discussed as progressive movement towards that goal. Presented properly, it's likely that a very large percentage of the population would have supported their removal and relocation.

It didn't get brought up in public discourse then because it didn't serve as a polarizing topic of discord. It does now due the violence and lawlessness associated with it.
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The portion of this country embracing Hope/Change/Obama and the portion of this country who would be most resistant to statue removal are generally two completely different portions. If it were the President unilaterally deciding to remove them rather than city councils doing it themselves, it would be a much more polarizing topic of discord than it is now.
 
#1,899
#1,899
NashVol11 said:
The portion of this country embracing Hope/Change/Obama and the portion of this country who would be most resistant to statue removal are generally two completely different portions. If it were the President unilaterally deciding to remove them rather than city councils doing it themselves, it would be a much more polarizing topic of discord than it is now.
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You're being intentionally obtuse. The platform was available to bring this into the light for civil discourse and it was never broached, because either it didn't matter a whole heck of a lot then or it wouldn't create the violent impact it has now, or both. Watching the media and politicians play this out is making it look more and more like both is the correct answer, and that's a damn shame for this country as a whole.
 
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