The Andrew Wiggins Sweepstakes

#626
#626
LittleCat said:
Rupp? Wasn't he the first to have a black player in the SEC? And he said he would have recruited one earlier if he thought the player was good enough iirc.
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Tried like hell to get Wes Unseld to come to UK. Not too many black players wanted to go into the deep south at that time and deal with the racism and abuse at bastions like Ole Miss.
 
#627
#627
Brian McCat said:
Tried like hell to get Wes Unseld to come to UK. Not too many black players wanted to go into the deep south at that time and deal with the racism and abuse at bastions like Ole Miss.
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Yeah. I don't blame them for not going to Rupp. Rupp had created a dynasty, and a black player would have been under so much scrutiny. I can't blame people for not like Rupp. He was a ruthless coach, and didn't hide his feelings about other schools. But racism was something I don't think he cared about, just skill. Obviously I'm biased lol.
 
#628
#628
LittleCat said:
Rupp? Wasn't he the first to have a black player in the SEC? And he said he would have recruited one earlier if he thought the player was good enough iirc.
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First black player in the SEC was Perry Wallace of Vanderbilt.

Perry Wallace - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

First black player at UK was Tom Payne. It looks like he enrolled three years after Wallace.

Tom Payne (basketball) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Interesting side story...the Wiki entry says Payne was ejected from both games against Tennessee during his first season for flagrantly fouling the same guy.
 
#629
#629
LittleCat said:
Yeah. I don't blame them for not going to Rupp. Rupp had created a dynasty, and a black player would have been under so much scrutiny. I can't blame people for not like Rupp. He was a ruthless coach, and didn't hide his feelings about other schools. But racism was something I don't think he cared about, just skill. Obviously I'm biased lol.
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Like you, I wasn't alive when Rupp coached.
My opinion, based on accounts I've read and heard, is that Rupp was not a racist but also cared little about integrating the SEC. I'm not saying he's a bad guy for that. I'm saying I think he was more interested in being a basketball coach than a social changer. If the SEC had black players in 1950, and he had a chance to sign some he thought would improve his team, I absolutely think he would have done it. But, I also don't think he would have cared if the SEC never integrated, so long as his teams kept winning.

If I wanted to pick at Rupp's legacy, I'd start with the investigation that led to his team's one-year death penalty, discuss that they were historically lucky that vacating titles apparently wasn't a go-to form of punishment then, and then wildly (and probably correctly) speculate that they were cheating for decades in ways that only Mr. Gilbert could top.
 
#630
#630
ukvols said:
Like you, I wasn't alive when Rupp coached.
My opinion, based on accounts I've read and heard, is that Rupp was not a racist but also cared little about integrating the SEC. I'm not saying he's a bad guy for that. I'm saying I think he was more interested in being a basketball coach than a social changer. If the SEC had black players in 1950, and he had a chance to sign some he thought would improve his team, I absolutely think he would have done it. But, I also don't think he would have cared if the SEC never integrated, so long as his teams kept winning.

If I wanted to pick at Rupp's legacy, I'd start with the investigation that led to his team's one-year death penalty, discuss that they were historically lucky that vacating titles apparently wasn't a go-to form of punishment then, and then wildly (and probably correctly) speculate that they were cheating for decades in ways that only Mr. Gilbert could top.
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I think Rupp was like I said earlier, ruthless. He could care less what happened in basketball. At the end of the day is wanted to win. I don't mind that from a coach. Some coaches will speak nice all the time and not mean what they say. To me, it seems like Rupp was just brutally honest. He recruited what he felt were the best players.

How would Rupp have cheated back then? Similar to how some say Wooden cheated? Honestly, so many schools have cheated and not been caught (KY probably more times that we know) that it's dumb to single out any program imo. The NCAA is so convoluted that teams probably cheat knowingly or not every day and throughout the decades of basketball cheating has happened at every program.
 
#632
#632
LittleCat said:
I think Rupp was like I said earlier, ruthless. He could care less what happened in basketball. At the end of the day is wanted to win. I don't mind that from a coach. Some coaches will speak nice all the time and not mean what they say. To me, it seems like Rupp was just brutally honest. He recruited what he felt were the best players.

How would Rupp have cheated back then? Similar to how some say Wooden cheated? Honestly, so many schools have cheated and not been caught (KY probably more times that we know) that it's dumb to single out any program imo. The NCAA is so convoluted that teams probably cheat knowingly or not every day and throughout the decades of basketball cheating has happened at every program.
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I choose not to drop UK's history into the category of schools breaking rules because the NCAA rulebook is too hard to follow.

I think major college sports in general were the wild west until major, high-profile crackdowns in the 1980s against programs like UK, SMU, and others.

It's easy and appropriate to single out schools like UK and UCLA for the same reason it's easy and appropriate to single out ballplayers like Bonds and McGwire.
 
#634
#634
LittleCat said:
Rupp? Wasn't he the first to have a black player in the SEC? And he said he would have recruited one earlier if he thought the player was good enough iirc.
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Well, if I'm wrong about Rupp, then I apologize. I've always heard he was a racist, but maybe that's more based off hearsay than facts. UKvols account finds a middle road between the two positions (Rupp a racist and Rupp a willful proponent of integration), so it's likely that his account is closest to the truth.
 
#635
#635
volprof said:
Well, if I'm wrong about Rupp, then I apologize. I've always heard he was a racist, but maybe that's more based off hearsay than facts. UKvols account finds a middle road between the two positions (Rupp a racist and Rupp a willful proponent of integration), so it's likely that his account is closest to the truth.
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The demonization of Rupp as a racist is an interesting subject. Pat Riley delicately put it as, "He was a product of his generation."

Jon Scott's site has a dated-looking but interesting essay on the subject.
 
#636
#636
therealUT said:
Wow, win a national title and all sense goes out the window?

In the past decade, KU has made it to the Final Four three times and the Elite Eight six times.

In case you were wondering, that is more Final Four and Elite Eight appearances that UK. If you were still wondering, KU has more Final Four and Elite Eight appearances in the past decade than Louisville has in the past twenty-five years.

Also three national title game appearances in the last decade for KU (and one national title).

Choosing between UK, UNC, and KU, there was really no "bad" choice for Wiggins. And, while KU may not be the front-runner for the National Title this upcoming season, the players on that team certainly ought to be expecting to win it all (just as UK's players should).
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My bad, I forgot that Wiggins was joining the 2008 Kansas Jayhawks squad.
 
#638
#638
GatorsGators said:
wow

How can you even argue that going to Kansas is a bad decision basketball-wise?
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Going to Kansas is far from a horrible decision in terms of collegiate basketball. If I received an offer from KU today, I'd be foolish not to take it.

Then again, I'm not getting a scholarship offer from the 2013 Kentucky Wildcats. Turning that down to play for a middling Kansas squad makes Wiggins an idiot.
 
#639
#639
notabed22 said:
Going to Kansas is far from a horrible decision in terms of collegiate basketball. If I received an offer from KU today, I'd be foolish not to take it.

Then again, I'm not getting a scholarship offer from the 2013 Kentucky Wildcats. Turning that down to play for a middling Kansas squad makes Wiggins an idiot.
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Please stop
 
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#640
#640
notabed22 said:
Going to Kansas is far from a horrible decision in terms of collegiate basketball. If I received an offer from KU today, I'd be foolish not to take it.

Then again, I'm not getting a scholarship offer from the 2013 Kentucky Wildcats. Turning that down to play for a middling Kansas squad makes Wiggins an idiot.
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:wacko:
 
#641
#641
notabed22 said:
Going to Kansas is far from a horrible decision in terms of collegiate basketball. If I received an offer from KU today, I'd be foolish not to take it.

Then again, I'm not getting a scholarship offer from the 2013 Kentucky Wildcats. Turning that down to play for a middling Kansas squad makes Wiggins an idiot.
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I say some really dumb stuff on here from time to time, but are you sure that you're a Louisville fan?
 
#642
#642
notabed22 said:
My bad, I forgot that Wiggins was joining the 2008 Kansas Jayhawks squad.
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Continue to question a kid's decision-making abilities and intelligence because he chose to play basketball at KU. And, forget about the current string of Conference Championships at KU; as well, forget about UK's amazing NIT showing last season.
 
#643
#643
therealUT said:
Continue to question a kid's decision-making abilities and intelligence because he chose to play basketball at KU. And, forget about the current string of Conference Championships at KU; as well, forget about UK's amazing NIT showing last season.
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Remind me who beat that Jayhawk a** last year in the NC game?
 
#644
#644
Brian McCat said:
Remind me who beat that Jayhawk a** last year in the NC game?
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Whoa...easy, there, sport. I've never said a Wiggins to UK decision would have been a bad decision. I'm simply highlighting that there are good reasons for choosing KU; just as there are good reasons for choosing UK or UNC (I think the reasons favoring FSU would not have been good).
 
#645
#645
therealUT said:
Whoa...easy, there, sport. I've never said a Wiggins to UK decision would have been a bad decision. I'm simply highlighting that there are good reasons for choosing KU; just as there are good reasons for choosing UK or UNC (I think the reasons favoring FSU would not have been good).
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You know, it's that Robert Morris thing that gets us all butthurt.
 
#647
#647
therealUT said:
Continue to question a kid's decision-making abilities and intelligence because he chose to play basketball at KU. And, forget about the current string of Conference Championships at KU; as well, forget about UK's amazing NIT showing last season.
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Damn, I keep forgetting that the offer Wiggins had from Kentucky was to retroactively join the 2012 Kentucky Wildcats.
 
#650
#650
Uh oh Heel fans your boy PJ Hairston just got popped for weed and driving w/o a license. Not too smart of him.
 
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