the difference of a home run hire

#101
#101
keckjm said:
CBJ will pull out some risksy play calls when the odds are in our favor. It's easy to watch OSU and say, Urban has guts. He also has a great OL, a 250 QB that looks like a TE, and a defense that's stacked on the line.

Not pointing this to you at all, but some people on here have no clue how football works. You can't begin to compare Urban to Butch. Does Urban play to win? Yes, he does, but that doesn't mean CBJ plays to lose. We don't have the same talent OSU does. OSU is loaded with talent, and they were in 1000x better shape when Urban got to OSU compared to when CBJ came here in 2013. If people aren't pleased with what CBJ has done so far, then they need to reexamine their expectations. We have won, what, 22 games in four years? Still, we are on our way to a second top five recruiting class.

The only concerns for CBJ are the OL recruiting and living up to some of the unrealistic expectations of this fan base...
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We can argue about whether running out time in the 2nd quarter against Missouri was a wise decision or not. What isn't arguable is that the only reason we were in that game at that point was a brilliant fake FG call. Where it came from, I have no idea. Seems so anti-Butch and his process. With hindsight being 20/20, I bet Butch plays the last minute of that half differently.

Personally, I don't see the logic in wasting a scoring opportunity and I don't like the call. Someone had mentioned a 4 yard loss on the first play as the reason for running out the clock. I don't think anyone is really trying that hard to score with a running play on 1st down with 1:20 to go. My philosophy is this. If my team is dominant, then I like the conservative approach. Odds say I win if I play it like this. If I'm outmanned, you to play lights out and take chances. Dont forget, our Defense had played really well up to that point too...
 
#102
#102
GLDunlap said:
We had the ball on our own 28 with 1:14 left in the half. That's not great field position. When we lost 4 yards on first down (to the 24) it was the right decision to run out the clock. Missouri was living in our backfield. Had Dobbs been sacked Missouri could have used their timeouts to get the ball back on our side of the 50. Every situation is different and in that particular case the risk/reward was just not in our favor. By your comments I seriously question your football IQ.
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Wrong. Mizzou was backed up inside their own 10 facing a second and thirty with 3:30 to go. Butch decided right there to let the clock run out because it was obvious to everyone they would simply run twice and punt in that position. He didn't use his timeouts which is what allowed the clock to run down to 1:30. Even the announcers were like wow. Really surprised they don't stop the clock here and try to get one last possession before the half.
It was a mistake. You are telling the players in that situation that I don't trust you and we're just going to sit on pins and needles and hope we are able to win this thing. Name one very successful coach in college football today that wouldn't have tried to take advantage of that situation. You can't. I watched closely what other coaches did the rest of the season faced with similar situations and not one time did I see another coach take such a conservative approach. All 4 teams in the playoff were know for being aggressive (even saban).

Look I really do like Butch and don't want us to start over. But we're are never going to win big without being aggressive. It's more than just a decision made based on percentages. It's the message you send to the players. It's understanding the affect of losing momentum and how hard it is to regain it.

My hope is that if enough of the fans complain on message boards maybe it gets back to the staff that a lot of the fan base think they are playing too conservatively and maybe they adjust. Coaches especially in college really try to keep tabs on what the fanbase wants. And at least this fan wants to see a coach go for broke every time out.
 
#103
#103
How many "homerun" hire coaches are out there? Bet SC thought Spurrier was a homerun hire. Saban, Meyer and Malzahn may be the only true "homeruns" (at least based on NCs won) in the country. To think that a coach of this quality would want to leave his current job and come to Knoxville is silly.
We have one who appreciates being at a tradition rich program and works like crazy to do the best job he can to put out our dumpster fire. We hopefully will be able to look back in a few years and say we can add Butch Jone to the list of elite coaches. Remember that all these other coaches worked their way up the ladder to get where they are now just like CBJ. The 3 coaches above weren't considered elite til they won a NC. Maybe we will get there with CBJ and then we will have no choice but to pay thru the nose to keep him.
 
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#105
#105
chattavol420 said:
That is all speculation. And since when do parents dictate when and where a player plays? CBJ shouldhhave said if we are going to run a read option offense... You're son is the best fit and he needs to play immediately. He on scholarship. It's not his or anyone else's decision
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You obviously do NOT read or pay attention.

You just choose to throw your useless opinions out and then act like you really know something, LOL!

Coaches and our O coordinator have clearly stated that early in the season Josh Dobbs was NOT ready to start.

They also said that his passes were consistently either too high or too short and in the dirt.

Dobbs is clearly the better running QB but when it came to passing it was JW that was head and shoulders above Dobbs.

If JW hadn't been injured he just might have also gotten us to the bowl game and Won it too.

Had that happened then Dobbs would still be a secret, he would still have another extra year of playing time and time to learn and develope more and it would be easier to redshirt a couple of our incoming QB's so they would have an extra year on the hill.

Smart coaches play today to Win all they can but they recruit and plan ahead for a roster that can make a run at a Championship.

If you look ahead and have a roster that looks like a Championship contender in 2 or 3 years then you do NOT waste the QB that you think you're going to need to lead that Championship run and have to start a younger, less experienced QB.

If you THINK about everything that's going on you might also see that maybe buTch was forced to recruit more QB's for the next class simply because he was forced to play Dobbs this year and he won't still have him for 3 more years now so he has to find the right QB and start getting him ready to play sooner than he wanted.

Some smart people try to live by the 6 P rule my friend...

Prior
Planning
Prevents
Piss
Poor
Performance

To me it seems that buTch is one of those people that try to carefully plan everything in advance as much as he can.

#BrickbyBrick...VFL...GBO!!!
 
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#107
#107
chattavol420 said:
Wrong. Mizzou was backed up inside their own 10 facing a second and thirty with 3:30 to go. Butch decided right there to let the clock run out because it was obvious to everyone they would simply run twice and punt in that position. He didn't use his timeouts which is what allowed the clock to run down to 1:30. Even the announcers were like wow. Really surprised they don't stop the clock here and try to get one last possession before the half.
It was a mistake. You are telling the players in that situation that I don't trust you and we're just going to sit on pins and needles and hope we are able to win this thing. Name one very successful coach in college football today that wouldn't have tried to take advantage of that situation. You can't. I watched closely what other coaches did the rest of the season faced with similar situations and not one time did I see another coach take such a conservative approach. All 4 teams in the playoff were know for being aggressive (even saban).

Look I really do like Butch and don't want us to start over. But we're are never going to win big without being aggressive. It's more than just a decision made based on percentages. It's the message you send to the players. It's understanding the affect of losing momentum and how hard it is to regain it.

My hope is that if enough of the fans complain on message boards maybe it gets back to the staff that a lot of the fan base think they are playing too conservatively and maybe they adjust. Coaches especially in college really try to keep tabs on what the fanbase wants. And at least this fan wants to see a coach go for broke every time out.
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If Butch has hired someone to monitor message boards to help him coach, I hope it was a home run hire like me and not a strikeout king like you. :)
 
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#108
#108
GlockVol said:
How many "homerun" hire coaches are out there? Bet SC thought Spurrier was a homerun hire. Saban, Meyer and Malzahn may be the only true "homeruns" (at least based on NCs won) in the country. To think that a coach of this quality would want to leave his current job and come to Knoxville is silly.
We have one who appreciates being at a tradition rich program and works like crazy to do the best job he can to put out our dumpster fire. We hopefully will be able to look back in a few years and say we can add Butch Jone to the list of elite coaches. Remember that all these other coaches worked their way up the ladder to get where they are now just like CBJ. The 3 coaches above weren't considered elite til they won a NC. Maybe we will get there with CBJ and then we will have no choice but to pay thru the nose to keep him.
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We made a home run hire when we hired NC winning Johnny Majors...and won a NC with his replacement.
 
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#111
#111
This MUST be ground hog day....Please tell me it's ground hog day...,JUST ABSOLUTELY UNBELIEVABLE!!!!
 
#112
#112
chattavol420 said:
Wrong. Mizzou was backed up inside their own 10 facing a second and thirty with 3:30 to go. Butch decided right there to let the clock run out because it was obvious to everyone they would simply run twice and punt in that position. He didn't use his timeouts which is what allowed the clock to run down to 1:30. Even the announcers were like wow. Really surprised they don't stop the clock here and try to get one last possession before the half.
It was a mistake. You are telling the players in that situation that I don't trust you and we're just going to sit on pins and needles and hope we are able to win this thing. Name one very successful coach in college football today that wouldn't have tried to take advantage of that situation. You can't. I watched closely what other coaches did the rest of the season faced with similar situations and not one time did I see another coach take such a conservative approach. All 4 teams in the playoff were know for being aggressive (even saban).

Look I really do like Butch and don't want us to start over. But we're are never going to win big without being aggressive. It's more than just a decision made based on percentages. It's the message you send to the players. It's understanding the affect of losing momentum and how hard it is to regain it.

My hope is that if enough of the fans complain on message boards maybe it gets back to the staff that a lot of the fan base think they are playing too conservatively and maybe they adjust. Coaches especially in college really try to keep tabs on what the fanbase wants. And at least this fan wants to see a coach go for broke every time out.
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If you will go back and look, he did the same thing against UGA at the end of the half in 2013. Just plain dumb field management.
 
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#113
#113
Bet this message board was livid when we hired an assistant 1 year removed from the Army...Suwanee always paid the nickels needed...why couldn't we?
 
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#114
#114
bnhunt said:
I completely agree. All of these people complain about big name coaches costing too much, but I doubt Bama fans complain about how much money Satan makes or OSU fans about Meyer. Michigan will be the same in a few years when Harbaugh turns it around. That was always my deal about Gruden or another big name coach - if you can land them and they are successful no one cares for a second how much they make.
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Was you in Tampa when Gruden ran the Buc's program in the ground? I was, and Gruden was the Dooley of Tampa. Gruden isn't going to never coach college football where he has to grovel to 17 year old kids. Forget it about it.
 
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#115
#115
GlockVol said:
How many "homerun" hire coaches are out there? Bet SC thought Spurrier was a homerun hire. Saban, Meyer and Malzahn may be the only true "homeruns" (at least based on NCs won) in the country. To think that a coach of this quality would want to leave his current job and come to Knoxville is silly.
We have one who appreciates being at a tradition rich program and works like crazy to do the best job he can to put out our dumpster fire. We hopefully will be able to look back in a few years and say we can add Butch Jone to the list of elite coaches. Remember that all these other coaches worked their way up the ladder to get where they are now just like CBJ. The 3 coaches above weren't considered elite til they won a NC. Maybe we will get there with CBJ and then we will have no choice but to pay thru the nose to keep him.
Click to expand...

Spurrier was a HR hire. He's taken that program to places never imagined before he got there. The problem is that SC has a ceiling.
 
#116
#116
chattavol420 said:
That is all speculation. And since when do parents dictate when and where a player plays? CBJ shouldhhave said if we are going to run a read option offense... You're son is the best fit and he needs to play immediately. He on scholarship. It's not his or anyone else's decision
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Maybe CBJ was wrong, maybe not. I don't know. CUM had his best qb in the number 3 spot as well.
 
#118
#118
MFL said:
:eek:lol::eek:lol::eek:lol:It's obvious Tennessee refuses to pay the big bucks for a pedigree coach. Never have and never will. You pay for what you get. Eventually you'll get a winner in low budget investments. I got my fingers crossed. Next year we'll start to see what CBJ is made of. Absolutely no reason not to set my bar at a minimum 8 win season and that's being more than fair.:hi::hi:
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So you are saying we didn't pay big bucks for Kiffin and crew? How did that work out for us?
 
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#119
#119
butchna said:
Bet this message board was livid when we hired an assistant 1 year removed from the Army...Suwanee always paid the nickels needed...why couldn't we?
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As this post relies on comprehensive knowledge of Tennessee football history, you can be sure those masturbating for Urban Meyer and Nick Saban will not be able to comprehend the meaning.

There are many ways to become an elite-level football program. You can hire the big-gun as Bammer, Michigan, and Ohio State have done. You can hire the up-and-comer as LSU and Florida did with Miles and Spurrier respectively. Or you can choose the assistant coach with a proven mind and an ability to reach those under his command, as Nebraska did with Tom Osborne and Tennessee did when they chose Major Neyland.

Choosing a Neyland over a Heisman, a Sutherland, or a D.X. Bible-type ended up being the right choice for Professor Dougherty. Dr. Reese and Gus Manning made the home-run hire with Johnny Majors and it worked out. After two years, we see signs Butch Jones has things going in the right direction after being selected from a mid-major program.

When you have a program playing in the SEC in with C-USA talent recruiting in a limited talent pool and facing scholarship restrictions due to the negligence of the previous staff with regard to academics, you are generally not going to attract the home-run hire.

Be thankful for what we have now. We could very well have ended up with another obsessive-compulsive grooming freak like Dooley. Another one like that, and we would not have been able to even attract an successful head coach from a non-Power Five program.
 
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#120
#120
YorkVol said:
So you are saying we didn't pay big bucks for Kiffin and crew? How did that work out for us?
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Kiffin was not big name except for his dad's reputation. He had proven zero. If we gave him a Meyer,Saban, or Harbaugh level contract someone was drunk at the wheel.:thud::):):rock:
 
#121
#121
Some of our fans are like spoiled little kids, always wanting somebody else's toy when they don't appreciate and like what they have. UT football will be fine. We are in good hands.
 
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#122
#122
VolinMC said:
Some of our fans are like spoiled little kids, always wanting somebody else's toy when they don't appreciate and like what they have. UT football will be fine. We are in good hands.
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Some fans are just star struck with celebrities. Some celebrities are home runs and others are empty suits. Some fans have selective memories on celebrities. They see Gruden hitting homeruns in front of a TV camera, but ignore the disaster he left in Tampa. They see CUM's NC, but ignore him bailing on FL. They see Johnny Majors as a winner (and he was), but I can remember some awful mediocre years with him. There are many examples of celebrities and nobodies having success and failure. I just remember CUM being hired as a mid major coach and then winning NCs at Florida.
 
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#123
#123
Titan&Volfan4life said:
You obviously do NOT read or pay attention.

You just choose to throw your useless opinions out and then act like you really know something, LOL!

Coaches and our O coordinator have clearly stated that early in the season Josh Dobbs was NOT ready to start.

They also said that his passes were consistently either too high or too short and in the dirt.

Dobbs is clearly the better running QB but when it came to passing it was JW that was head and shoulders above Dobbs.

If JW hadn't been injured he just might have also gotten us to the bowl game and Won it too.

Had that happened then Dobbs would still be a secret, he would still have another extra year of playing time and time to learn and develope more and it would be easier to redshirt a couple of our incoming QB's so they would have an extra year on the hill.

Smart coaches play today to Win all they can but they recruit and plan ahead for a roster that can make a run at a Championship.

If you look ahead and have a roster that looks like a Championship contender in 2 or 3 years then you do NOT waste the QB that you think you're going to need to lead that Championship run and have to start a younger, less experienced QB.

If you THINK about everything that's going on you might also see that maybe buTch was forced to recruit more QB's for the next class simply because he was forced to play Dobbs this year and he won't still have him for 3 more years now so he has to find the right QB and start getting him ready to play sooner than he wanted.

Some smart people try to live by the 6 P rule my friend...

Prior
Planning
Prevents
Piss
Poor
Performance

To me it seems that buTch is one of those people that try to carefully plan everything in advance as much as he can.

#BrickbyBrick...VFL...GBO!!!
Click to expand...

Look I see your perspective but just have a different opinion. If I'm in Butch's position I'm much more interested in winning this year and next than what happens to the roster in 3 or four years. Dobbs playing gave us by far the best chance to win this season based off the type offense we run. And Dobbs having gained valuable experience this season makes him much more ready to play next year. We still have Dobbs for two more seasons. And by letting him go ahead and have the job it allowed Butch to go to several different qb prospects and tell them they have a legitimate chance at playing here as a RS sophomore.

And I've felt like all along Butch saying he doesn't look good in practice is just him covering himself for making a really dumb decision in leaving this guy in the bench. Many writers that observed practice thought Dobbs looked great and we're surprised he wasn't named the starter. He also look by far the best qb during the spring game. He had a 70 yard run down the sideline that gave everyone an idea if how good of a runner he could be.

Again Butch better be focused on winning now because in this league he might not get 3 or 4 more years. You can argue all you want but it was a really stupid decision to let Dobbs sit on the bench and lose games to Oklahoma, Florida, and Georgia that were all winable. And you make this RS argument... Against Florida Muschamp put in his true freshman when the offense wasn't getting anything going and won the game because of it. He made a gutsy decision that goes against everything you just said and won a game because of it.
 
#124
#124
People want it done immediately.

What many fail to realize is that Tennessee is not the kind of place where rebuilding takes place quickly. It took time to rebuild from Bowden Wyatt's collapse into alcoholic depression. It took years to move forward from the fact Bill Battle was in over his head. And it has taken some time to move past a man I consider to be the worst head coach in SEC history.

The first two situations were dumpster fires. We are currently facing a rebuild from a college football atomic bomb. At a place where rebuilding hasn't been easy, I'm amazed we were able to field something resembling a competitive SEC football program two years after Little Lord Fauntleroy left town.
 
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#125
#125
92volalum said:
Looks like suckeyes going to win nc n 3rd yr of urban...

Just really shows you the difference of big time hires n taking chances.. thank god Michigan went big I can't take the suckeye fans n urban running his mouth.


A great coaching staff does make a difference.

This is not a debate on situations TN vs. OS. Its about what a great coach can do for a program.

:hi:
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Meyer is a really good coach which he proved at a number of locations. He has been very careful in his rise as a coach by picking his location wisely. I am not surprised at his success at UF or OSU. He had a roster of good athlete at both UF and OSU when took over those programs and he has been able to develop those players into National Championship teams. He has also recruited very well at both UF and OSU. It would have been interesting to have been able to see how long it would take him to develop championship teams at school who were not already stocked with athletes and had to do a majority of his recruiting in States that do not produce a large number of D1 players.
 
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