the difference of a home run hire

[QuickSmurf]

Look I see your perspective but just have a different opinion. If I'm in Butch's position I'm much more interested in winning this year and next than what happens to the roster in 3 or four years. Dobbs playing gave us by far the best chance to win this season based off the type offense we run. And Dobbs having gained valuable experience this season makes him much more ready to play next year. We still have Dobbs for two more seasons. And by letting him go ahead and have the job it allowed Butch to go to several different qb prospects and tell them they have a legitimate chance at playing here as a RS sophomore.

And I've felt like all along Butch saying he doesn't look good in practice is just him covering himself for making a really dumb decision in leaving this guy in the bench. Many writers that observed practice thought Dobbs looked great and we're surprised he wasn't named the starter. He also look by far the best qb during the spring game. He had a 70 yard run down the sideline that gave everyone an idea if how good of a runner he could be.

Again Butch better be focused on winning now because in this league he might not get 3 or 4 more years. You can argue all you want but it was a really stupid decision to let Dobbs sit on the bench and lose games to Oklahoma, Florida, and Georgia that were all winable. And you make this RS argument... Against Florida Muschamp put in his true freshman when the offense wasn't getting anything going and won the game because of it. He made a gutsy decision that goes against everything you just said and won a game because of it.

See the comment you made about Butch not using Dobbs to beat UGA makes zero sense. Worley was on fire that game. They didn't have an answer to our passing game. We were the better team that Saturday. Had Justin not sat out two possession's we would have won.

 

[orangeluvr]

I completely agree. All of these people complain about big name coaches costing too much, but I doubt Bama fans complain about how much money Satan makes or OSU fans about Meyer. Michigan will be the same in a few years when Harbaugh turns it around. That was always my deal about Gruden or another big name coach - if you can land them and they are successful no one cares for a second how much they make.

Yep, the big ten will become the big two again. :birgits_giggle:

 

[VolinMC]

Some fans are just star struck with celebrities. Some celebrities are home runs and others are empty suits. Some fans have selective memories on celebrities. They see Gruden hitting homeruns in front of a TV camera, but ignore the disaster he left in Tampa. They see CUM's NC, but ignore him bailing on FL. They see Johnny Majors as a winner (and he was), but I can remember some awful mediocre years with him. There are many examples of celebrities and nobodies having success and failure. I just remember CUM being hired as a mid major coach and then winning NCs at Florida.

I like the way you said that. Just the way society is today I guess. Also remember the Major years also.

 

[QuickSmurf]

Butch is recruiting on Meyers level at Tennessee who hasn't won anything in years.

 

[Buster1972]

Urban is a great coach, but he has been lucky too. He walked into situations at UF and OSU where the talent was already there. Big difference from rebuilding from a dumpster fire IMO.

Look at what Urban has done at every coaching stop. He has been elite at every place he has coached. He led Utah to an undefeated season and a BCS Bowl. Two national titles at Florida. His first season at OSU he went undefeated. He had another undefeated regular season last year. And of course, what that OSU team has done over the last 6 weeks. He has taken OSU to a higher level than what they were under Tressel.

Winning a title at two different schools puts him in very elite company. Saban is the only other coach to do that. In basketball, only Rick Pitino has won a championship at two different schools. Pitino's greatness is undisputed, and so is Meyers.

Urban Meyer has now established himself as one of the greatest coaches in college football history, and he isn't finished yet. To say you would rather have Butch is the most ridiculous homerism I have ever seen. I know no one really believes that. They say that because they have no choice. UT, from the top down, is what it is. And we all have to live with it.

 

[butchna]

Look at what Urban has done at every coaching stop. He has been elite at every place he has coached. He led Utah to an undefeated season and a BCS Bowl. Two national titles at Florida. His first season at OSU he went undefeated. He had another undefeated regular season last year. And of course, what that OSU team has done over the last 6 weeks. He has taken OSU to a higher level than what they were under Tressel.

Winning a title at two different schools puts him in very elite company. Saban is the only other coach to do that. In basketball, only Rick Pitino has won a championship at two different schools. Pitino's greatness is undisputed, and so is Meyers.

Urban Meyer has now established himself as one of the greatest coaches in college football history, and he isn't finished yet. To say you would rather have Butch is the most ridiculous homerism I have ever seen. I know no one really believes that. That say that because they have no choice. UT, from the top down, is what it is. And we all have to live with it.

You don't.

 

[triadvolfan]

This has been an interesting thread to read through. I generally agree with the OP that if you can get a proven winner (college national champion pedigree or NFL super bowl) then you do it, even if you have to back the Brinks truck up. If you hire someone that doesn't demand that kind of pay and they do pan out, you're still going to have to pay them a fortune once they start winning. So why not just take the proven guy up front.

It's not really applicable to UT's last hiring situation though. There aren't that many top coaches out there and they sure aren't coming to the dumpster fire left from the Kiffin/Dooley fiasco regardless of pay. There were also financial considerations that meant UT probably couldn't have paid it anyway.

Meyer went to OSU because there was a lot of talent in place and he wouldn't have to endure 2 years of losing before his hard work started paying off. To his credit, Meyer has upgraded the talent of an already talented team, and the fact he was winning while doing it certainly helped him on the recruiting trail. Taking over at UT would have been tougher and less attractive to him.

Without the talent and money to attract a proven winner at the highest level you're left with hiring a proven winner at the lower level which is what UT did (unlike when they hired Dooley who was not a proven winner at his last stop). Recruiting has gone better then any of us could ever have hoped for so I'm optimistic CBJ will pan out. Here's hoping if he does start winning the financial situation is rectified and they'll be able to pay the man.

 

[oregonvol]

As a 45 year observer, UT will never be those programs. We have never displayed a vision for greatness. We want to occasionally win and have a profitable program but those programs strive for greatness and are willing to invest in their goals.

Unfortunately, I agree. Though I will argue that at one time, we did strive for greatness. It took a real commitment to get to the next level and achieve greatness for our AD to fire Majors when they did. Majors could have been counted on to post 8-9 wins a year for a good deal longer and please the "good enough" fans, but they rolled the dice on achieving more and we got a national championship out of it. I really admire Dickey for having the vision to see what we could achieve by doing that and not simply sticking to the "safe move" or following the herd.

But, I agree that is a solitary exception to what has been the rule for Tennessee football for most of my lifetime.

 

[sameolvol]

CUM is a great coach. Most importantly, he's very smart. He stepped into the right situation. A "plug and play" situation where the team was already very talented, and he has the luxury to add and now is a NC again. He wouldn't have came back into coaching until something such as the situation at OS came about. When it did, it was the perfect situation. Historically good program, coming off a 12 win season, which were vacated but still. The school had a streak of +10 wins from 05 -11 when CUM took over. It wasn't like he stepped into a dumpster fire like CBJ did. CBJ has built his; CUM inherited his.

I dislike responding on a thread posted by a faux alumnus, but I don't mind doing so to agree with your post, MiramarVol. Meyer stepped into a team loaded with the exact types of players he requires for his offensive and defensive systems. Although he is, indeed, a douche, he's also a top notch recruiter, so all he had to do was overstock OSU with even more studs like were already there. CBJ's possibly an even better recruiter...just starting from scratch. Judging by the quality of players who fit into his system, UT's not far away from maybe coaching the Big Orange against Meyer's boys in the NC before long. Meyer's play calling is admittedly exemplary, but it's not sensible to sell Butch short until he's got the skill-types and depth to make his machine run. I've never seen so many ridiculous comparisons among coaches than by some of those who're dissing CBJ based on obviously shallow perceptions of the overall picture. A modicum of patience is necessary as the bricks are almost in place.

 

[Grizzly Vol]

You know...sometimes you just like to talk about something that has no reflection on UT's hire...even when you use the word "difference" in the title...totally random. :wink2:

Oh of course. I completely understand the need to talk about schools coaching hires while taking a subtle jab at UT. It's an urge we all must fill.

Obviously the last sentence was sarcasm. People amaze me. Butch could win a NC and someone will find a way to point out that Butch isn't Jon Gruden, Nick Saban, Urban Meyer, Vince Lombardi, and whoever else. I understand the want for a home run hire in a coach, but the teams CBJ has had since arriving in Knoxville weren't national championship quality, regardless of who the head coach was.

 

[chattavol420]

See the comment you made about Butch not using Dobbs to beat UGA makes zero sense. Worley was on fire that game. They didn't have an answer to our passing game. We were the better team that Saturday. Had Justin not sat out two possession's we would have won.

You don't know that. Dobbs was the better qb to run this offense. No question. So why do you not think he'd have done better against uga than worley? Uga defense wasn't very good this year. Who knows... Had Dobbs played that game we might have beaten them by 2 scores.

 

[keckjm]

Look at what Urban has done at every coaching stop. He has been elite at every place he has coached. He led Utah to an undefeated season and a BCS Bowl. Two national titles at Florida. His first season at OSU he went undefeated. He had another undefeated regular season last year. And of course, what that OSU team has done over the last 6 weeks. He has taken OSU to a higher level than what they were under Tressel.

Winning a title at two different schools puts him in very elite company. Saban is the only other coach to do that. In basketball, only Rick Pitino has won a championship at two different schools. Pitino's greatness is undisputed, and so is Meyers.

Urban Meyer has now established himself as one of the greatest coaches in college football history, and he isn't finished yet. To say you would rather have Butch is the most ridiculous homerism I have ever seen. I know no one really believes that. They say that because they have no choice. UT, from the top down, is what it is. And we all have to live with it.

Try not to choke bud...:worship:

 

[MaTaLa]

Whatever.

Thankful for Butch. That last TD was classless. You whipped the team all night, set numerous records, they stop calling timeouts, but you still have to push in another score?

You'll never see Butch do that, nor should you.

AV

PS. Tressel > Dooley

There's a few teams I'd be ok w/ Butch doing it to.

 

[The Tall Gguy]

It is hard to complain when you are winning/competing for a national title every year.

 

[butchna]

Oh of course. I completely understand the need to talk about schools coaching hires while taking a subtle jab at UT. It's an urge we all must fill.

Obviously the last sentence was sarcasm. People amaze me. Butch could win a NC and someone will find a way to point out that Butch isn't Jon Gruden, Nick Saban, Urban Meyer, Vince Lombardi, and whoever else. I understand the want for a home run hire in a coach, but the teams CBJ has had since arriving in Knoxville weren't national championship quality, regardless of who the head coach was.

While Buckeyes fans are celebrating their championship, they need to be holding their AD's feet to the fire...when they fired Tressell, why didn't they hire Saban or Meyer immediately? Don't give me that tired "they weren't available" crap! Homerun hire or bust! Fickell cost them a year towards their championship!

 

[chattavol420]

Look at what Urban has done at every coaching stop. He has been elite at every place he has coached. He led Utah to an undefeated season and a BCS Bowl. Two national titles at Florida. His first season at OSU he went undefeated. He had another undefeated regular season last year. And of course, what that OSU team has done over the last 6 weeks. He has taken OSU to a higher level than what they were under Tressel.

Winning a title at two different schools puts him in very elite company. Saban is the only other coach to do that. In basketball, only Rick Pitino has won a championship at two different schools. Pitino's greatness is undisputed, and so is Meyers.

Urban Meyer has now established himself as one of the greatest coaches in college football history, and he isn't finished yet. To say you would rather have Butch is the most ridiculous homerism I have ever seen. I know no one really believes that. They say that because they have no choice. UT, from the top down, is what it is. And we all have to live with it.

You're wasting your time arguing. But I for one, totally agree. We went out and made a value hire. Which is so incredibly stupid. The difference in the right coach could mean literally hundreds of millions in revenues. Why the hell are we trying to save a couple hundred grand. But that's what happens when you allow a guy with very little experience to make this type of decision without any supervision. Just hey man... This is the most important financial decision our university will make over the next decade. But you were an assistant ad at the amazing Alabama Sonim sure you're capabilities. Good luck.

Instead of identifying a rockstar/home run type hire. And whether anyone wants to admit it or not... Those are out there. A number of former NFL coaches or even Gary Patterson from tcu.

 

[Grizzly Vol]

While Buckeyes fans are celebrating their championship, they need to be holding their AD's feet to the fire...when they fired Tressell, why didn't they hire Saban or Meyer immediately? Don't give me that tired "they weren't available" crap! Homerun hire or bust! Fickell cost them a year towards their championship!

Hold his feet to the fire? IMHO he needs to be fired. A year lost is unforgivable. They should've sold part of the school to get Urban immediately. No matter the cost, get the home run hire!

 

[Crazy Ivan]

Is it not time to put the "should've played Dobbs from the beginning of the year" argument to bed permanently? Hindsight is always 20/20 and nobody could've predicted that Dobbs would play as well as he did.

Would mess up agendas.

 

[Grizzly Vol]

Would mess up agendas.

I suppose you are right. I wonder if our coaches name was, say Gary Patterson, would the few who fiercely question the decision to not play Dobbs continue to do so?

I used Patterson since he has had success at TCU, but hasn't won a NC.

 

[bnhunt]

Money and big names don't always guarantee success. There are several coaches making more then Meyer who aren't winning anything.

Agree that there is no direct correlation, but if you aren't willing to pay top dollar then you are never going to get a big name coach to begin with.

 

[lonelawyer]

How many times do we have to go through this?

1. There are limited "home run hires" out there, and timing, location and luck play into the ability to get one of them.

2. Firing a coach who has won a national championship, has a top winning percentage and is one year removed from an appearance in the conference championship game is enough to make any big name coach question whether this is where he might want to come.

3. Being unable to get a knockout centerfold candidate, Mike Hamilton did the next best thing. He got a (perceived) home run coaching staff. A disciple of Pete Carroll on offense with proven assistants on offense. The best recruiter, legal or otherwise, in the business, and the creator of the Tampa two defense. No one could anticipate the train wreck that followed.

4. Following that, with time running out, Hamilton hires the Anti-Kiffin, who then spends the next three years setting fire to every dumpster in Knoxville. Oh, and walking away with the entire athletic department surplus in the process.

5. So exactly how were we supposed to get this home run hire instead of Butch?

Butch seems to recruit as well as a young Phil Fulmer. His players run through walls for him and he plays a sexy brand of football. Who was going to make things better, faster?

Can't we get past this? Pete Carroll is not leaving the Seahawks to coach UT.

 

[YorkVol]

Yeah, we paid top dollar in 08-09, how did that work out for us?

 

[terrypedigo]

Let Coach get 2 more recruiting classes, then we all will see it was not a Home Run hire, but we knocked it out of the park with the bases loaded and my friend that would be called a GRAND SLAM HIRE.:clapping:

 

[Grizzly Vol]

How many times do we have to go through this?

1. There are limited "home run hires" out there, and timing, location and luck play into the ability to get one of them.

2. Firing a coach who has won a national championship, has a top winning percentage and is one year removed from an appearance in the conference championship game is enough to make any big name coach question whether this is where he might want to come.

3. Being unable to get a knockout centerfold candidate, Mike Hamilton did the next best thing. He got a (perceived) home run coaching staff. A disciple of Pete Carroll on offense with proven assistants on offense. The best recruiter, legal or otherwise, in the business, and the creator of the Tampa two defense. No one could anticipate the train wreck that followed.

4. Following that, with time running out, Hamilton hires the Anti-Kiffin, who then spends the next three years setting fire to every dumpster in Knoxville. Oh, and walking away with the entire athletic department surplus in the process.

5. So exactly how were we supposed to get this home run hire instead of Butch?

Butch seems to recruit as well as a young Phil Fulmer. His players run through walls for him and he plays a sexy brand of football. Who was going to make things better, faster?

Can't we get past this? Pete Carroll is not leaving the Seahawks to coach UT.

Better, faster? There are coaches out there who would've won UT 1-2 national championships by now. How do you not know that?

 

[QuickSmurf]

Look at what Urban has done at every coaching stop. He has been elite at every place he has coached. He led Utah to an undefeated season and a BCS Bowl. Two national titles at Florida. His first season at OSU he went undefeated. He had another undefeated regular season last year. And of course, what that OSU team has done over the last 6 weeks. He has taken OSU to a higher level than what they were under Tressel.

Winning a title at two different schools puts him in very elite company. Saban is the only other coach to do that. In basketball, only Rick Pitino has won a championship at two different schools. Pitino's greatness is undisputed, and so is Meyers.

Urban Meyer has now established himself as one of the greatest coaches in college football history, and he isn't finished yet. To say you would rather have Butch is the most ridiculous homerism I have ever seen. I know no one really believes that. They say that because they have no choice. UT, from the top down, is what it is. And we all have to live with it.

Some of us care about how we represent Tennessee. Its not only about wins.