The disney insanity continues

[RockyTop85]

That was my point in the beginning as I posted the other night.

Disney brought in a record profit of $12.6 billion in fiscal 2018...but paid $100M in local taxes. and no state taxes. Heck of a deal they got from 55 years ago. Time to stand up on their own as far as I care.

I dare say show me one relocation initiative that goes out past 20 years.

The numbers you’re talking about are not remotely consistent with what is in the article or what has been reported by Reuters. I don’t really know what else to say about that.

 

[RockyTop85]

Exactly how is a state government repealing a law unconstitutional?

Is it your assertion that this special provision given to Disney was an infinite and never ending situation?

No, that’s not what I’m saying.

When government takes action to punish or retaliate against a person or business for constitutionally protected speech, that is unconstitutional. Political speech is constitutionally protected. It does not matter that the manner of punishment is eliminating a special benefit that not everyone is entitled to.

I posted a 1996 Supreme Court case earlier in the thread along with my explanation that I don’t think it is clear that Disney would win and why, which is why I used the word “arguably.”

 

[MurphyVol]

That was my point in the beginning as I posted the other night.

Disney brought in a record profit of $12.6 billion in fiscal 2018...but paid $100M in local taxes. and no state taxes. Heck of a deal they got from 55 years ago. Time to stand up on their own as far as I care.

I dare say show me one relocation initiative that goes out past 20 years.

The "deal" beating that they pay all the taxes anyone else would and receive no sercices in return?

 

[RockyTop85]

The "deal" beating that they pay all the taxes anyone else would and receive no sercices in return?

They don’t pay all the taxes, to be fair. It does look like they pay about 10 million less than they would for police services from Orange County and they have not paid for improvements to the Orange county roads leading into RCID since like 1996. Some of the taxes that they pay go back into advertising for WDW and Orlando Tourism in general.

It seems it is not close to the $150M+ that they pay for operating government services in RCID.

 

[dobre_shunka]

No, that’s not what I’m saying.

When government takes action to punish or retaliate against a person or business for constitutionally protected speech, that is unconstitutional. Political speech is constitutionally protected. It does not matter that the manner of punishment is eliminating a special benefit that not everyone is entitled to.

I posted a 1996 Supreme Court case earlier in the thread along with my explanation that I don’t think it is clear that Disney would win and why, which is why I used the word “arguably.”

You are aware that this bill is not only affecting Disney? It eliminates ALL independent special districts enacted before the 1968 Florida Constitution. Six districts including Disney’s and several within the Villages of Florida are set to be dissolved.

So how is this bill targeting Disney because of a political stance or speech issue when it eliminates multiple districts established before a set date?

 

[RockyTop85]

You are aware that this bill is not only affecting Disney? It eliminates ALL independent special districts enacted before the 1968 Florida Constitution. Six districts including Disney’s and several within the Villages of Florida are set to be dissolved.

So how is this bill targeting Disney because of a political stance or speech issue when it eliminates multiple districts established before a set date?

I am aware of that.

The issue of whether it is punishing Disney’s speech is the one on which I have said courts would be more skeptical. Not because there isn’t a lot of evidence, there is.

The governor has made public statements linking the bill to Disney’s speech.

“I’m just not comfortable having that type of agenda get special treatment in my state,” Mr. DeSantis said on Friday, denouncing how Disney had responded to the legislation.

The record of the Florida senate deliberations contain more:


Then there are various public statements by the senators:


I’m sure there are others.

In my opinion, there’s a question of whether Courts will consider that as the better evidence of legislative intent. I believe that depends on the philosophy of the judges who review the case.

 

[Orangeslice13]

It won’t matter.
The new method is to just ignore the court ruling and do whatever you want.

 

[n_huffhines]

Exactly how is a state government repealing a law unconstitutional?

Is it your assertion that this special provision given to Disney was an infinite and never ending situation?

There is likely precedent that the government can't punish the politically unfavorable in such a way.

 

[n_huffhines]

You are aware that this bill is not only affecting Disney? It eliminates ALL independent special districts enacted before the 1968 Florida Constitution. Six districts including Disney’s and several within the Villages of Florida are set to be dissolved.

So how is this bill targeting Disney because of a political stance or speech issue when it eliminates multiple districts established before a set date?

The idea that bill didn't target Disney because there is collateral damage doesn't hold water.

 

[lawgator1]

You are aware that this bill is not only affecting Disney? It eliminates ALL independent special districts enacted before the 1968 Florida Constitution. Six districts including Disney’s and several within the Villages of Florida are set to be dissolved.

So how is this bill targeting Disney because of a political stance or speech issue when it eliminates multiple districts established before a set date?

You literally don't know what you are talking about.

 

[Septic]

You literally don't know what you are talking about.

Saw this and thought it was worth a read.

There’s a lot of misinformation and confusion about what the end of Disney’s Reedy Creek district means for the company and for taxpayers.

Here’s what I know, after talking to lobbyists, lawyers and tax officials:
For those of you who haven’t heard, Reedy Creek is the special tax district of Walt Disney World. It’s essentially its own city. Disney pays taxes to Reedy Creek, which operates a fire department, planning department, sewer treatment plant and public works department. Disney controls Reedy Creek, which means if they want to build a new hotel or highway, they just have to ask themselves for permission.

The biggest loss for Disney is the end of that control. It’s a lot easier to ask yourself for permission than to go to the county. While they already follow all laws and building codes and they’ll still get everything they want, it’s going to slow the process down. Potholes might develop on roads that they no longer pave themselves. They can’t just call a meeting or alter their comprehensive plan on a random Friday. They also can’t quickly finance new public projects like a fire station.

The bigger issue for everyone else is the tax revenue. Disney already pays the same local property taxes as every other landowner. Reedy Creek added its own tax on top of that to pay for its projects. That tax – $163 million per year – is illegal outside of the district. When Reedy Creek goes away, that tax goes away, and Orange and Osceola Counties can’t do anything to get it back.
However, the counties will now be responsible for all of the services Reedy Creek provides and all of the debt it has accumulated. They can’t raise sales taxes or impact fees. So, the counties will have to raise property taxes to make up the difference. They must tax every property equally – not just Disney – and therefore it’s expected that property taxes in Orange County will rise as much as 25% next June. Osceola, much smaller and less wealthy, is still working on its figures.

Lawyers largely agree that the state followed all the laws while doing this. They agree Disney may sue, but probably doesn’t have much ground to stand on. Some believe a vote of residents or delegates from the district is required to make this legal. That doesn’t appear to be the case here because a vote was never held to implement the district 55 years ago.

Essentially, Disney will lose some control of its property, and get a $163 million per year tax break and ~$1 billion of debt passed onto taxpayers. Some things will be negotiated – Disney still controls Bay Lake and Lake Buena Vista, two actual towns within RCID. Lawmakers might backtrack from this plan during the next session now that they’re realizing what they’ve done. However, aside from maybe taking away the company’s ability to build a nuclear plant, we have yet to hear how this benefits Florida and especially the local residents in any way.

The residents, by the way, had no say in this vote, no say in their property taxes going through the roof, and no desire to have their communities staring at financial ruin thanks to 72 hours of orchestrated revenge

End of Reedy Creek: Disney won’t pay more taxes, but you will

 

[Orangeslice13]

There is likely precedent that the government can't punish the politically unfavorable in such a way.

They should never have been given special treatment

 

[Orangeburst]

.

 

[ClearwaterVol]

I’ll try. I’m on my local planning commission and oftentimes our city and county government will offer a graduated tax rate that starts with a rate for an unimproved property and eventually grows to the improved rate in 30 years. Additionally, the local utilities usually offer incentives as well. I don’t know if that helps.

It doesn’t.

 

[TNVOLNAVY]

Saw this and thought it was worth a read.

There’s a lot of misinformation and confusion about what the end of Disney’s Reedy Creek district means for the company and for taxpayers.

Here’s what I know, after talking to lobbyists, lawyers and tax officials:
For those of you who haven’t heard, Reedy Creek is the special tax district of Walt Disney World. It’s essentially its own city. Disney pays taxes to Reedy Creek, which operates a fire department, planning department, sewer treatment plant and public works department. Disney controls Reedy Creek, which means if they want to build a new hotel or highway, they just have to ask themselves for permission.

The biggest loss for Disney is the end of that control. It’s a lot easier to ask yourself for permission than to go to the county. While they already follow all laws and building codes and they’ll still get everything they want, it’s going to slow the process down. Potholes might develop on roads that they no longer pave themselves. They can’t just call a meeting or alter their comprehensive plan on a random Friday. They also can’t quickly finance new public projects like a fire station.

The bigger issue for everyone else is the tax revenue. Disney already pays the same local property taxes as every other landowner. Reedy Creek added its own tax on top of that to pay for its projects. That tax – $163 million per year – is illegal outside of the district. When Reedy Creek goes away, that tax goes away, and Orange and Osceola Counties can’t do anything to get it back.
However, the counties will now be responsible for all of the services Reedy Creek provides and all of the debt it has accumulated. They can’t raise sales taxes or impact fees. So, the counties will have to raise property taxes to make up the difference. They must tax every property equally – not just Disney – and therefore it’s expected that property taxes in Orange County will rise as much as 25% next June. Osceola, much smaller and less wealthy, is still working on its figures.

Lawyers largely agree that the state followed all the laws while doing this. They agree Disney may sue, but probably doesn’t have much ground to stand on. Some believe a vote of residents or delegates from the district is required to make this legal. That doesn’t appear to be the case here because a vote was never held to implement the district 55 years ago.

Essentially, Disney will lose some control of its property, and get a $163 million per year tax break and ~$1 billion of debt passed onto taxpayers. Some things will be negotiated – Disney still controls Bay Lake and Lake Buena Vista, two actual towns within RCID. Lawmakers might backtrack from this plan during the next session now that they’re realizing what they’ve done. However, aside from maybe taking away the company’s ability to build a nuclear plant, we have yet to hear how this benefits Florida and especially the local residents in any way.

The residents, by the way, had no say in this vote, no say in their property taxes going through the roof, and no desire to have their communities staring at financial ruin thanks to 72 hours of orchestrated revenge

End of Reedy Creek: Disney won’t pay more taxes, but you will

Small price to pay to not be held hostage by groomers.

 

[HammondB3Vol]

It doesn’t.

Just an example. For the record, I don’t usually agree with most of your positions but in this case I think you are absolutely correct.

 

[Septic]

Small price to pay to not be held hostage by groomers.

I could tell you how dumb you sound by calling a company with a $223b market cap "groomers", but you would lack the capacity to process why.

Anyhow. My guess is that you're not one of the people whose taxes are going up by 25% next year, easy to feign outrage and play loose with other peoples money when you've got no skin in the game.

 

[happy-go_vol]

Let's be honest. You are supporting a bill you haven't read. That is the definition of stupid.

Have you read the bill?

 

[happy-go_vol]

I could tell you how dumb you sound by calling a company with a $223b market cap "groomers", but you would lack the capacity to process why.

Anyhow. My guess is that you're not one of the people whose taxes are going up by 25% next year, easy to feign outrage and play loose with other peoples money when you've got no skin in the game.

You're the queen of talking about stuff you're clueless about.

 

[happy-go_vol]

It's not increased taxes, it's shifting of tax burden.

So im assuming you wouldn't support any of California's insane demands on corporations.

 

[Septic]

You're the queen of talking about stuff you're clueless about.

The irony of you guys whining about "groomers" is rich. Having MTG sitting there with Gaetz? You can't make this stuff up. My guess is that he only made it to her trial because his girl friends spring break was over. And frankly, based on "her" looks and demeanor - I'm not convinced Marjorie Taylor Greene didn't used to be known as Mark Taylor Greene.

 

[MurphyVol]

Saw this and thought it was worth a read.

There’s a lot of misinformation and confusion about what the end of Disney’s Reedy Creek district means for the company and for taxpayers.

Here’s what I know, after talking to lobbyists, lawyers and tax officials:
For those of you who haven’t heard, Reedy Creek is the special tax district of Walt Disney World. It’s essentially its own city. Disney pays taxes to Reedy Creek, which operates a fire department, planning department, sewer treatment plant and public works department. Disney controls Reedy Creek, which means if they want to build a new hotel or highway, they just have to ask themselves for permission.

The biggest loss for Disney is the end of that control. It’s a lot easier to ask yourself for permission than to go to the county. While they already follow all laws and building codes and they’ll still get everything they want, it’s going to slow the process down. Potholes might develop on roads that they no longer pave themselves. They can’t just call a meeting or alter their comprehensive plan on a random Friday. They also can’t quickly finance new public projects like a fire station.

The bigger issue for everyone else is the tax revenue. Disney already pays the same local property taxes as every other landowner. Reedy Creek added its own tax on top of that to pay for its projects. That tax – $163 million per year – is illegal outside of the district. When Reedy Creek goes away, that tax goes away, and Orange and Osceola Counties can’t do anything to get it back.
However, the counties will now be responsible for all of the services Reedy Creek provides and all of the debt it has accumulated. They can’t raise sales taxes or impact fees. So, the counties will have to raise property taxes to make up the difference. They must tax every property equally – not just Disney – and therefore it’s expected that property taxes in Orange County will rise as much as 25% next June. Osceola, much smaller and less wealthy, is still working on its figures.

Lawyers largely agree that the state followed all the laws while doing this. They agree Disney may sue, but probably doesn’t have much ground to stand on. Some believe a vote of residents or delegates from the district is required to make this legal. That doesn’t appear to be the case here because a vote was never held to implement the district 55 years ago.

Essentially, Disney will lose some control of its property, and get a $163 million per year tax break and ~$1 billion of debt passed onto taxpayers. Some things will be negotiated – Disney still controls Bay Lake and Lake Buena Vista, two actual towns within RCID. Lawmakers might backtrack from this plan during the next session now that they’re realizing what they’ve done. However, aside from maybe taking away the company’s ability to build a nuclear plant, we have yet to hear how this benefits Florida and especially the local residents in any way.

The residents, by the way, had no say in this vote, no say in their property taxes going through the roof, and no desire to have their communities staring at financial ruin thanks to 72 hours of orchestrated revenge

End of Reedy Creek: Disney won’t pay more taxes, but you will

Great analysis, good luck on getting more than 1-2 people on here to believe you. Any sense that Disney may call their bluff, at least at first?

 

[dobre_shunka]

You literally don't know what you are talking about.

Ah, the classic Lawgator one sentence "witty" response. Who could have seen that coming?

Quote from SB 4-C

"(2) Notwithstanding s. 189.072(2), any independent special district established by a special act prior to the date of ratification of the Florida Constitution on Nov. 5, 1968, and which was not reestablished, re-ratified, or otherwise reconstituted by a special act or general law after Nov. 5, 1968, is dissolved effective June 1, 2023. An independent special district affected by this subsection may be reestablished on or after June 1, 2023, pursuant to the requirements and limitations of this chapter."

 

[Septic]

Great analysis, good luck on getting more than 1-2 people on here to believe you. Any sense that Disney may call their bluff, at least at first?

I mean, the facts aren't debatable. Looks like most in here simply don't care that citizens (that aren't them) are going to eat a turd sandwich because their flavor of politician didn't like anyone talking back to him.

The next time a democrat sics the dogs on a republican business or org that dares speak out, I'm sure they'll sit as quietly and shrug as they are now.

Disney has shareholders, they aren't going to eat $150m+ in taxes if they don't have to.

 

[MurphyVol]

I mean, the facts aren't debatable. Looks like most in here simply don't care that citizens (that aren't them) are going to eat a turd sandwich because their flavor of politician didn't like anyone talking back to him.

The next time a democrat sics the dogs on a republican business or org that dares speak out, I'm sure they'll sit as quietly and shrug as they are now.

Disney has shareholders, they aren't going to eat $150m+ in taxes if they don't have to.

I'm just curious to see if Disney says/does nothing publicly and maybe even acts compliant about the handover and sees how long it takes them to walk this back.

It's (supposedly) a lot of work to get done in 12 months.

Will Orange end up hiring all the Reedy workers? Assume their pension plan? They have 7 job openings, one of which is a Utility Billing Accountant. Should they put on a hiring freeze? Will the utility rates be the same?


I'd start reaching out now to Orange County about putting a plan in place to transfer assets and debts and watch the panic set in.