The economy post-Covid

#151
#151
NEOCON said:
Do you have any examples of times this override has actually been used in the past 30 years?

Curious about the clauses and if they apply to communicable disease or just a direct loss to a manufacturing plant such as an earthquake taking it out so its no longer useable.

Also, if these clauses are triggered does it take uaw payroll off the books while manufacturing limits are reduced or does pay still happen?
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Twice both were “acts of god “ One was ice storms that made it impossible to run even a minimum quota and the other was a tornado that hit the facility . It was talked about one other time ( oddly enough from a strike that **** down our ability the receive the raw materials we needed to keep a full shift running ) but that was able to be avoided before the trigger was set off . ( I still should add that these are anecdotal, and as you know all contracts are set up differently but every contract I’ve been involved with has some form of emergency protection measures baked in for the company ) .
 
#152
#152
Dumbledorange said:
A sales tax will need to replace the income tax (and raise more money), people will quit paying their taxes if the choice is not eating or no housing. Healthcare will need to be socialized to the extent that there are no out-of-pockets costs for any patient or the population will face critical issues that will result in more deaths and disabilities.

There's much, much more...
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Yes. Government got us into this mess. We should give them more power over our lives.
 
#153
#153
0nelilreb said:
Twice both were “acts of god “ One was ice storms that made it impossible to run even a minimum quota and the other was a tornado that hit the facility . It was talked about one other time ( oddly enough from a strike that **** down our ability the receive the raw materials we needed to keep a full shift running ) but that was able to be avoided before the trigger was set off . ( I still should add that these are anecdotal, and as you know all contracts are set up differently but every contract I’ve been involved with has some form of emergency protection measures baked in for the company ) .
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Both times were direct losses you mentioned that specifically shut the plant down. I am curious if communicable disease would fall under this also.

I got no idea though.

My friends point though was that you cannot just wipe out an entire year of manufacturing per agreements.

I know there are outs to stop at specific plants and for a specific time but are there outs to skip an entire annual production cycle and just go to the next schedule?


I am asking for knowledge, not debating.

I could just see 21s coming on the market absolutely wrecking the industry since 19s are still unsold and normally are all gone by now.
 
#154
#154
NEOCON said:
Both times were direct losses you mentioned that specifically shut the plant down. I am curious if communicable disease would fall under this also.

I got no idea though.

My friends point though was that you cannot just wipe out an entire year of manufacturing per agreements.

I know there are outs to stop at specific plants and for a specific time but are there outs to skip an entire annual production cycle and just go to the next schedule?


I am asking for knowledge, not debating.

I could just see 21s coming on the market absolutely wrecking the industry since 19s are still unsold and normally are all gone by now.
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I don’t know how this thing would play out with a contract , there are so many variables at play for both the company and union . ( Normally everyone kind of comes together to figure out the best way forward usually in the form of concessions on both sides ) but this isn’t anything normal . Some southern state facilities would seem to have the upper hand while northern facilities would be forced to shut down by government . You can bet there is some mad scheming and sleepless nights going on right now trying to look and see ahead of this thing .
 
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#155
#155
FLVOL_79 said:
I look at it as a natural disaster that just eventually goes away. Hurricanes come and go and destroy huge swaths of land and kill people, and a few months later life goes on. The only place I've ever been that had decades lasting impact from a disaster was Homestead AFB, but thats because the government just said F it.
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Insurance normally covers losses from a normal natural disaster. Outside of Trump throwing out that bone a month ago (https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/coronavirus/article241559316.html), I don't think there is much relief these small businesses could receive that they normally would get after a natural disaster.
 
#157
#157
NEOCON said:
My friends point though was that you cannot just wipe out an entire year of manufacturing per agreements. I know there are outs to stop at specific plants and for a specific time but are there outs to skip an entire annual production cycle and just go to the next schedule?
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People cancel manufacturing contracts all the time - both buyers and sellers. Airlines will not buy any new airplanes anytime soon and I believe one or two of the domestic carriers had orders in for some prior to late March.
 
#158
#158
Purple Tiger said:
People cancel manufacturing contracts all the time - both buyers and sellers. Airlines will not buy any new airplanes anytime soon and I believe one or two of the domestic carriers had orders in for some prior to late March.
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I was talking about the uaw specifically, not basic contracts.

But thanks for the obvious.
 
#161
#161
05_never_again said:
When I was younger, I was 100% on board the "we're f***ed, China is the next world power, China will ultimately screw us when they become able to purchase themselves what they produce instead of needing to have the US buy it, etc.) train.

The older I've gotten, I think that's wrong. Our relationship with them is complicated and in some ways codependent. However, they actually need us more than they need them. China cannot project power outside its own sphere of influence, and that's bad because they are reliant on access to global markets. We do that for them. They have demographic problems - their 35-year-long one child policy is coming back to bite them in the ass. They have serious issues within their own banking system, even worse than ours, and their interest in buying things like US real estate is a sign of capital flight from their own country, not coming to "take over" our own.
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I may have an overly simplified understanding of things. But I say it's all the more reason to sever relations with the dog eaters while we still can
 
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#162
#162
Purple Tiger said:
Do you want a recovered economy or to protest mandatory vaccinations. It's likely to boil down to one or the other.
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Disagree. You only need 60-70% of the population to either have had the virus or get vaccinated to establish protection. Those numbers won’t be hard to reach. And yes I will get vaccinated. For those saying they won’t, wait till they realize their employer will make them. I am positive mine will.
 
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#165
#165
#167
#167
Orangeburst said:
I would not be so sure it is clear cut. According to the article:

"so long as the vaccination is job-related and consistent with business necessity".

Now how this is interpreted I have no idea.

This was a health care provider case as well.
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I understand what you are saying. But do you think employers won’t say it’s a requirement for us to open? Do you think judges will prevent it? I don’t think so.
 
#168
#168
Orangeburst said:
I would not be so sure it is clear cut. According to the article:

"so long as the vaccination is job-related and consistent with business necessity".

Now how this is interpreted I have no idea.

This was a health care provider case as well.
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On top of what I said earlier, outside of ADA requirements, why shouldn’t a business be able to make those requirements?
 
#170
#170
volfanhill said:
Only if you want to keep your job. So, yes, most people will get it.

Yes, Employers Can Fire Staff for Under-Vaccination
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If you can do titres and prove you are immune, the you don't need the shots. In this case she had low titres and needed a MMR booster because of rubella. She just sued them and didn't include any information about the incidence rate of healthcare workers transmitting rubella to pts. Which is nearly zero. She posed no appreciable health threat to her pts. She went about this case wrong and lost. She had a unimaginative lawyer. JMO
 
#171
#171
lukeneyland said:
I think that commercial real estate will suffer for a long time. Many business will revaluate the necessity of having their employees work in corporate office spaces. I think working from home will become the norm for many industries in the not too distant future. People that have stake in these sorts of properties might well have one foot in the grave at this point
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We’ve had a few office building projects recently canceled or put on hold for this reason already.
 
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