The Ground Zero mosque is a bad idea and shouldn't be permitted.

#76
#76
gsvol said:
I don't live in east Tennessee.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.

You're just resorting to a cheap shot.

BTW, the vast majority of the people all across America oppose the Ground Zero Victory mosque.
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You're too nutty, even for the buckle of the bible belt.

That boils down to opinion... not that you even know what that word means.

How is it a cheap shot? There's a pretty solid, unified ideology here. Sure, it's not running wild with liberals, but it's almost all conservative. Such is the general consensus of the VN political board. Stop trying to villainize everything you oppose. It's becoming monotonous.

While most of the country feels it is inappropriate, most of the country also believes the developers reserve the right.

Poll: Most Say "Ground Zero Mosque" Is Inappropriate - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

Suck it.
 
#77
#77
#78
#78
DinkinFlicka said:
You're too nutty, even for the buckle of the bible belt.

That boils down to opinion... not that you even know what that word means.

How is it a cheap shot? There's a pretty solid, unified ideology here. Sure, it's not running wild with liberals, but it's almost all conservative. Such is the general consensus of the VN political board. Stop trying to villainize everything you oppose. It's becoming monotonous.

While most of the country feels it is inappropriate, most of the country also believes the developers reserve the right.

Poll: Most Say "Ground Zero Mosque" Is Inappropriate - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

Suck it.
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If they only had more information they would be far more inclined to completely oppose it.

If we had a government that really represented the best interests of the American people, they wouldn't permit it.
 
#79
#79
gsvol said:
If they only had more information they would be far more inclined to completely oppose it.

If we had a government that really represented the best interests of the American people, they wouldn't permit it.
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You clearly ignored the link, but if we're playing by your rules, the war in Iraq never should have happened.
 
#80
#80
DinkinFlicka said:
You clearly ignored the link, but if we're playing by your rules, the war in Iraq never should have happened.
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The war in Iraq has zero to do with a ground zero victory mosque in Manhattan.

I've been ignoring the Communist Broadcasting System since 1959 when Dan Blather of CBS along with the New York Slime newspaper told us what a swell guy Fidel Castro was.

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#82
#82
VOLatile said:
I've never seen anyone ignore so many facts in my life.

I'm sure you won't read this, but someone will. Charlie Brooker | 'Ground Zero mosque'? The reality is less provocative | Comment is free | The Guardian
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Are you talking about opinion or factoids??

Here are a few factoids.

The Guradian is and always has been a communist party mouthpiece.

According to Gallup, 78% of American muslims approve of Obamama.

Creeping sharia in France has gone so far as to have 750+ government designated no-go areas where it is forbidden for non muslims to enter.

Muslims in America are not shy about advancing islamic sharia law, from demanding hallal food in public schools to foot baths in public buildings.

Any intelligent overview shows us that the vast majroity of muslmis in America are here not to assimilate but to infiltrate, subvert and ultimately overcome.

There may be some exceptions but there are many who will openly state their goals as mentioned above.

Every islamic organization in this country has been formed for just those goals.

Unfortuantely too many in the country can't see what is coming.

The demands of islam are endless.

Everyone needs to review what Geert Wilders of Holland is saying about the results of this liberal approach to islamo/fascism.
 
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#83
#83
How does a man go from being a waiter to owning multimillion dollar real estate in Manhatten in such a short time?????

I suppose being a tax cheat is part of it.

Ground Zero mosque developers owe $224,000 in back property taxes on site, records show - NYPOST.com

Sharif El-Gamal, the leading organizer behind the mosque and community center near Ground Zero, owes $224,270.77 in back property tax on the site, city records show.

El-Gamal's company, 45 Park Place Partners, failed to pay its half-yearly bills in January and July, according to the city Finance Department.

The delinquency is a possible violation of El-Gamal's lease with Con Edison, which owns half of the proposed building site on Park Place. El-Gamal owns the other half but must pay taxes on the entire parcel.
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I guess this is why the community organizer in chief is paying for El-Camel's pal Ralph to tour the mideast to beg for more money!!!

Before any building can go forward, the developers also must get approval from the MTA because the 2 and 3 subway lines run under a portion of the Park Place property, The Post has learned.
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The Post revealed this month that El-Gamal owned only half the site. Gamal purchased the lease to the Con Ed property for $700,000 last year when he bought the other building on the site for $4.8 million.

He has told Con Ed he wants to buy the building at 49-51 Park Place, which Con Ed is appraising to determine fair market value.

El-Gamal insisted to The Post that the lease permitted him to demolish the property at any time.

But the lease agreement says El-Gamal must provide Con Ed with a copy of a financing commitment or other proof that money is available to "cover the estimated cost of demolition of the building and construction of the new building."
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#87
#87
obamgulf.jpg


historyww2.jpg


Secretary of State Hillary Clinton announced
she will host Palestinian-Israeli peace talks in
Washington D.C. Observers were surprised the
Israelis agreed to come to the United States f
or the talks. You'd think they would insist on
a neutral country.

The White House hosts a Middle East peace
conference in Washington Monday. The ritual
never changes. We'll have the Palestinians
negotiating under Islamic law, Israel negotiating
under Judaic law, and President Obama
negotiating under Murphy’s Law.

New York education regents approved a textbook
Friday that glorifies Islam and criticizes the
Christian heritage of America's Founding Fathers.
Hopefully the Arabs appreciate that in New York
City a Jewish mayor is standing up for the right
of Muslims to build a mosque wherever they like.
It's their Protestant liberty.
 
#89
#89
Just curious as to what legal grounds you believe this center/mosque shouldn't be permitted GS?

I think it is a bad idea personally and believe pressure should be applied to convince them moving elsewhere is in the best interest of everyone but don't think we should outright block it simply because it offends the sensibilities of some, if we did that nothing would ever be built, everyone is offended by something it seems.
 
#90
#90
IF this center is funded from benign sources with no links to the political activities of Islamic extremists and disavows any intention of spreading sharia law as a replacement or compliment to US law and is expressly and ONLY for religious or community activities... then there is none.

The problem here is that a central tenet of Islam is the establishment of a ever spreading Islamic theocracy. So where does the religion end and the sedition begin?
 
#91
#91
KB5252 said:
Just curious as to what legal grounds you believe this center/mosque shouldn't be permitted GS?

I think it is a bad idea personally and believe pressure should be applied to convince them moving elsewhere is in the best interest of everyone but don't think we should outright block it simply because it offends the sensibilities of some, if we did that nothing would ever be built, everyone is offended by something it seems.
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I can't wait to hear the answer to this.
 
#92
#92
sjt18 said:
That's where you and many others on both sides keep missing it.

I agree with you if this is a religious center then they have as much right to be there as anywhere else even if they're celebrating a Muslim victory over the West. As repulsive and stupid as that expression would be, we have to protect that right or else we provide the rationale for losing our own.

HOWEVER, if this is political in nature then we very much ARE at odds with Islam in that respect.

The basic problem is this: do we treat Islam as a religion or a political ideology/group? Their honest answer would be that they are both. Until we define the problem correctly, we cannot come to a solution.

Our founders fought and died in part to throw off a state established church... That is basically what fundamental Islamic doctrine says must spread across the globe, a theocracy.

This issue isn't as cut and dried as you seem to think.
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Our Constitution guarantees freedom of religion, meaning anybody can practice whatever religion they so choose without persecution. It says nothing about the right to build their church/temple/mosque/synagogue wherever they please. The local municipalities have the right to approve or deny a permit to anyone wanting to build on a given site. If the local government in NYC wants to allow it, then they have the right to build it. If they deny the building permit, then they either have to re-apply or build somewhere else.
 
#93
#93
crazyguy said:
I can't wait to hear the answer to this.
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America outlawed the extra-contitutional endeavors of the Morman church.

The muslim brotherhood is behind the ground zero mosque and nearly a dozen countries so far have outlawed the muslim brotherhood as a political entity.

We can do the same.
 
#94
#94
superdave1984 said:
Our Constitution guarantees freedom of religion, meaning anybody can practice whatever religion they so choose without persecution. It says nothing about the right to build their church/temple/mosque/synagogue wherever they please. The local municipalities have the right to approve or deny a permit to anyone wanting to build on a given site. If the local government in NYC wants to allow it, then they have the right to build it. If they deny the building permit, then they either have to re-apply or build somewhere else.
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Yes. Rights are not absolute. But NYC would have to be even handed if they denied the permit. The existence of other worship places nearby would make a denial very difficult to justify under zoning.
 
#95
#95
superdave1984 said:
Our Constitution guarantees freedom of religion, meaning anybody can practice whatever religion they so choose without persecution. It says nothing about the right to build their church/temple/mosque/synagogue wherever they please. The local municipalities have the right to approve or deny a permit to anyone wanting to build on a given site. If the local government in NYC wants to allow it, then they have the right to build it. If they deny the building permit, then they either have to re-apply or build somewhere else.
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Does it say anything about crosses dedicated to WWI veterans??

Does it say anything about crosses beside the road for fallen state troopers?

Does it say anything about ten commandment displays in courthouses or on their grounds??

Does it say anything about boy scout gatherings on public property??

Does it say anything about prayers in public schools?

No where in the American Constitution does it say that islam has a right to any damned thing!!!

If it is all about NYC, what does Barack Hussein Obmamama have any damned say whatsoever???

What do you Davie boy have to say about the ten milion Christians slain in the name of islamic jihad during the twentieth centuy and do you have the numbnuts mentality to think it won't happen here?????

"Stupid is as stupid does!!" Forest Gump
 
#96
#96
KB5252 said:
Just curious as to what legal grounds you believe this center/mosque shouldn't be permitted GS?

I think it is a bad idea personally and believe pressure should be applied to convince them moving elsewhere is in the best interest of everyone but don't think we should outright block it simply because it offends the sensibilities of some, if we did that nothing would ever be built, everyone is offended by something it seems.
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Right now the site must clear the MTA.

Legally we have the right to deny the building on the grounds thay repesent an illegal foreign authority, namely the muslim brotherhood.

The there are two more items, unpaid back taxes and the fact that they do not in fact own all the property.

There are many more legal considerations that can be broached.



sjt18 said:
IF this center is funded from benign sources with no links to the political activities of Islamic extremists and disavows any intention of spreading sharia law as a replacement or compliment to US law and is expressly and ONLY for religious or community activities... then there is none.

The problem here is that a central tenet of Islam is the establishment of a ever spreading Islamic theocracy. So where does the religion end and the sedition begin?
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That's a joke, we know that in fact the backers of the ground zero mosque do have connections to radical islamist forces!!!!!!

Aslo they do in fact support the spread to the extra-constitutional advancement of islamic sharia law in America!!

I don't think you have very much of a concept of what islamic sharia law entails srt!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is not just about civil affairs but about criminal affairs also.
 
#97
#97
gsvol said:
That's a joke, we know that in fact the backers of the ground zero mosque do have connections to radical islamist forces!!!!!!
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Just leaving room for rational agreement before pointing them toward the evidence... Don't get excited.

LG and others have gone nuts that the questions are being asked. I am simply pointing out that this isn't a cut and dried case of religious rights. Once they agree to that... they have to face the fact that we need to know some things.

I don't think you have very much of a concept of what islamic sharia law entails srt!!!!!!!!!!!!! ...
It is not just about civil affairs but about criminal affairs also.
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I know enough.

I'm just trying to get those who seem to know nothing to be willing to look by not making conclusions for them.

PS- the case is not closed on their motives and associations to the degree it needs to be to deny them. But there needs to be a poplular demand that the questions be asked before that can happen.

I hope you would agree that most of the people who poll in opposition to this thing are not doing it from a fully informed position. It is necessary that they are.
 
#98
#98
sjt18 said:
Yes. Rights are not absolute. But NYC would have to be even handed if they denied the permit. The existence of other worship places nearby would make a denial very difficult to justify under zoning.
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Are you talking about the Greek Orthidox Church that has been denied rebuilding rights after being destroyed at 9/11 and has been told they can't build higher than the poposed 9/11 memorial no matter what, in keeping with the islamic edict that no one can built higher than as an islamic mosque while the ground zero vitory mosque can build an 18 story edifice????

Maybe perhaps you are talking about the the flight 93 memorial which can be considered nothing less than a memorial to muslim jihadists?????
 
#99
#99
sjt18 said:
Just leaving room for rational agreement before pointing them toward the evidence... Don't get excited.
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Rational discussion and irrational acts are two distinctly different things.

sjt18 said:
LG and others have gone nuts that the questions are being asked. I am simply pointing out that this isn't a cut and dried case of religious rights. Once they agree to that... they have to face the fact that we need to know some things.
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I agree, this isn't a cut and dried case of religious rights, it also has to do with politics.

sjt18 said:
I know enough.
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REALLY?? If you are prepared to discuss islamic sharia law then so am I, let that begin with your first post on that topic!!!!!



sjt18 said:
I'm just trying to get those who seem to know nothing to be willing to look by not making conclusions for them.
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So am I.

sjt18 said:
PS- the case is not closed on their motives and associations to the degree it needs to be to deny them. But there needs to be a poplular demand that the questions be asked before that can happen.
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Good freaking luck!~

sjt18 said:
I hope you would agree that most of the people who poll in opposition to this thing are not doing it from a fully informed position.
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One thing I will agree on is that those who don't oppose the mosque are doing it from from a poorly informed position.

sjt18 said:
It is necessary that they are.
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BULLCRAP!!
 
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#100
#100
I wasn't trying to make any point other than no religious group has the "right" to a place of worship. They merely have to right to worship.
 
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