The Impeachment Thread

#326
#326
37L1 said:
Probably not different than most of his recent predecessors and those who currently hold high office in this country.
I guess we will just have to wait and see, if we both live long enough, that is.
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While I strongly disagree with the argument often advanced that Trump’s flaws are just like any other politician, I can’t argue with this.
 
#328
#328
Rifleman said:
To put it in Star Trek terms, he's basically the guy who would beam the Klingon's on board The Enterprise if they offered him an escape pod to Risa.
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#329
#329
Septic said:
Yeah, but foreign assistance to help smear a political opponent to maintain power?

The stakes are raised. If Clinton had done this for dirt on Trump, would you still be shrugging?
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In regards to the first, it is Biden's son, not candidate Biden. I pointed this out earlier.
To the second, if Clinton did it to Trump I would be very concerned. If she did it to Trump Jr...still would not like, but not as much concerned.

Maybe there is cause for Hunter to be investigated further. It has been in the public domain for many years that there were some dirty dealings and not just in Ukraine.

Much less prompted an investigation of Trump. How come the Dems did not object to this?
 
#330
#330
Septic said:
Yeah, but foreign assistance bribery to help smear a political opponent to maintain power?

The stakes are raised. If Clinton had done this for dirt on Trump, would you still be shrugging?
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I ain't shrugging based upon what's been said so far. It's concerning. Why wouldn't it be?

But there is a general feeling among a lot of people based upon what's been going on since November, 2016, that this is just another try at "gotcha now" by the opposition and the response is, "Who cares? This is getting old." Wake me when you impeach him.
 
#331
#331
Orangeburst65 said:
You could argue that just about any form of foreign assistance could be construed as bribery.
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No. The big difference with what Trump is alleged to have done, is that he offered assistance from the United States' government (allegedly) to a foreign country in exchange for something that would not be of benefit to the United States as a whole, but rather of personal political benefit to him and his reelection campaign. That... constitutes bribery, as Trump and Trump alone would be benefiting from his pledge to Ukraine.
 
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#332
#332
Orangeburst65 said:
In regards to the first, it is Biden's son, not candidate Biden. I pointed this out earlier.
To the second, if Clinton did it to Trump I would be very concerned. If she did it to Trump Jr...still would not like, but not as much concerned.

Maybe there is cause for Hunter to be investigated further. It has been in the public domain for many years that there were some dirty dealings and not just in Ukraine.

Much less prompted an investigation of Trump. How come the Dems did not object to this?
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The purpose remains the same... to damage Joe Biden politically in order to assist Trump's reelection campaign.
 
#333
#333
BowlBrother85 said:
No. The big difference with what Trump is alleged to have done, is that he offered assistance from the United States' government (allegedly) to a foreign country in exchange for something that would not be of benefit to the United States as a whole, but rather of personal political benefit to him and his reelection campaign. That... constitutes bribery, as Trump and Trump alone would be benefiting from his pledge to Ukraine.
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Try again. He was supposedly investigating Hunter, not Joe. How is this helping his reelection effort? You have no idea of what he is being investigated for. It could very well have to do with the national interests.
 
#335
#335
BowlBrother85 said:
I'm not engaging in an argument over something that would be "what-about-ism", except that it is far from having been established as a fact.

"If" (and I understand this is an enormous 'if' here) that is what Trump did on that phone call with the Ukrainian President? Then yes, that is a bribe... and a felony.
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Except the bribe was to counter a previous bribe. It doesnt clear Trump, but it's also not what about ism. If trump bribed, what did he bribe for?

The investigation, Since it is the matter of the bribe is a relevant subject.
 
#336
#336
Orangeburst65 said:
Try again. He was supposedly investigating Hunter, not Joe. How is this helping his reelection effort? You have no idea of what he is being investigated for. It could very well have to do with the national interests.
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lol
 
#338
#338
Orangeburst65 said:
Try again. He was supposedly investigating Hunter, not Joe. How is this helping his reelection effort? You have no idea of what he is being investigated for. It could very well have to do with the national interests.
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If you are going to play dumb, I'm not arguing this further. The purpose behind wanting an investigation of Hunter Biden to be conducted by the Ukrainian government was to damage Joe Biden politically, in order to enhance Trump's chances of winning reelection, in case he was to face Joe Biden in the general election (and Biden has been and continues to be the front runner in every poll). Trump knows that he could not order an investigation of Hunter Biden by the Department of Justice without giving the appearance of a conflict of interest. This was the next best thing.
 
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#340
#340
LouderVol said:
Pretty sure its public record that Biden held back money/arms to Ukraine while his son was being investigated in Ukraine. They didnt get the money until after the case was suspended or whatever happened. Trump is now apparently bribing them to open it back up.
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The Biden stuff I knew about, and Trump trying to get some dirt out of Ukraine would be no surprise. What I don’t believe has come out, is what he offered in exchange. More likely a sweet deal on weapons than a pallet of cash IMO.
 
#341
#341
All I know is that I hope Trump keeps asking if people really think he's dumb enough to say something stupid over the phone two days after a General had to tell him to shut his fat big mac hole.

yeah dude, people believe you are that stoopidz.
 
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#342
#342
RockyTop85 said:
Just spitballing here, but I’m thinking, if I’m the president of Ukraine, I’m probably not going to help the guy who called the annexation of my country’s territory “outsmarting Obama” and would probably see if I couldn’t give a leg up to the guy who gets nominated by the party that’s in a furor about having their election tampered with by the same country who annexed Crimea.
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I'm wary of reading too much U.S. domestic politics into what the Ukrainian president is doing. They've got a host of problems, beyond the bear in the backyard.

For example, the issue raised about the former prosecutor and the Ukrainian gas company that Biden's son was part of is going to be a lot more complicated there than it's being portrayed by partisans here.
 
#344
#344
Rifleman said:
You are really trying to move those goalposts, bud!

Good effort, but how about (and I know this is going to sound crazy) we start putting politicians who break the law in prison now matter which party they were pretending to be a part of when they committed a crime.

I say "pretending" because you know that lifetime Democrat Donald Trump isn't really interested in how the GOP or conservatives fair in all this, right?
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I got a secret for you, I dont like your boogie man either. Trump can burn for all I care. Heck I will give someone the matches if this stuff gets proved.

What I take issue with is ALL the bad arguments present in this thread. And the goal post has always been the same. Be consistent. I cant even get a "Biden shouldnt have done that", all I get is Orange Man bad. Talk about moving goal posts, you are just ignoring the ones on the other side of the field.

If we want to start with this issue, Hunter, Joe and Trump are all going to jail for this one instance. Or at least the discovery on Trumps case should be sending Joe to jail too. You know consistency and all.

Also can I quote you going forward to start sending politicians to jail for their crimes? Because it wont be long till the until the shoe is back on your foot. And are we starting with crimes right now, or just any that start to be investigated. I think half of DC has crimes that haven't been looked at.
 
#345
#345
Septic said:
All I know is that I hope Trump keeps asking if people really think he's dumb enough to say something stupid over the phone two days after a General had to tell him to shut his fat big mac hole.

yeah dude, people believe you are that stoopidz.
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If he did do this, then he really should be kicked out of office for sheer stupidity alone. This would be next level brain dead stupid.
 
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#346
#346
BowlBrother85 said:
I he did do this, then he really should be kicked out of office for sheer stupidity alone. This would be next level brain dead stupid.
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I personally think this is a nothing burger, but if he did....
 
#347
#347
#348
#348
lawgator1 said:
Notice how quiet the GOPers in the Senate are about this? You know some of them will happily jump on the impeachment bandwagon, maybe more than some, once it gets started.
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It's not that they are waiting on real facts to come out before they falsely claim victory for the up teenth time. No couldnt be that. Should have jumped on the impeachment bonfire before anything officially came out.

Good thing we dont have any due process in this country. So glad lawyers dont have a chance to peacock around and can just post online all day.
 
#349
#349
Septic said:
I personally think this is a nothing burger, but if he did....
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Maybe... but the longer the Trump Administration/DoJ blocks the Inspector General from briefing Congress on the substance of the whistleblower's report, the more and more suspicion is going to be fed. If it is a "nothing burger", then why not allow for some transparency with Congress?

I said that I was skeptical last night that anything comes from this and I still am... but there is some smoke here. Simply trying to paint the whistleblower as a political partisan, when we don't even know who the whistleblower is, wont cut it. Let's hear from the Inspector General, surely Trump wont argue that he is partisan... will he?
 
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