The Impeachment Thread

#43,576
#43,576
It’s worth noting, however, that the timeline as presented by Jordan is in dispute. Testimony from a dozen witnesses suggests that most of those involved in the interactions with Ukraine understood the timeline as Jordan does. But several outliers, people in better position to know, suggest the aid halt began as early as the beginning of July — and that Ukraine was aware of it later that month.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...d-ukraine-is-less-clear-than-you-might-think/

Even has a handy graph. Plenty of witness testimony claiming after July.

Evidence exists for both timelines. So it's a matter of which you believe has more credibility
 
#43,577
#43,577
volinbham said:
Does the article include him saying the Ukrainians knew in July?
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You are moving the goal posts for Volker. He says they knew while they were pushing for an investigation into the Bidens. He has no way to know exactly when they became aware of the freeze. The former deputy foreign minister of Ukraine, Olena Zerkal, says they knew in July.
 
#43,578
#43,578
volinbham said:
It’s worth noting, however, that the timeline as presented by Jordan is in dispute. Testimony from a dozen witnesses suggests that most of those involved in the interactions with Ukraine understood the timeline as Jordan does. But several outliers, people in better position to know, suggest the aid halt began as early as the beginning of July — and that Ukraine was aware of it later that month.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...d-ukraine-is-less-clear-than-you-might-think/

Even has a handy graph. Plenty of witness testimony claiming after July.

Evidence exists for both timelines. So it's a matter of which you believe has more credibility
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Why would the deputy foreign minister lie about such a thing? Why would Volker be lying now?

And once again, you really can't personally attest to what another person doesn't know, much less when they didn't know it ... you can only attest to what you have told them or to what they have told you.
 
#43,580
#43,580
BowlBrother85 said:
You are moving the goal posts for Volker. He says they knew while they were pushing for an investigation into the Bidens. He has no way to know exactly when they became aware of it. The former deputy foreign minister of Ukraine, Olena Zerkal, says they knew in July.
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He testified it was after the article. So if there's no way he could know he shouldn't have testified he did know and it was in August.

The WaPo article I posted shows more people testifying it was in August (post article/blog) than in July.
 
#43,582
#43,582
BowlBrother85 said:
Why would the deputy foreign minister lie about such a thing? Why would Volker be lying now?

And once again, you really can't personally attest to what another person doesn't know, much less when they didn't know it ... you can only attest to what you have told them or to what they have told you.
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Volker isn't lying now unless you can show he changed his testimony to state a specific date in July. His change in testimony didn't change his statement of when Ukraine knew.

Many people testified it was in August - should they not have made those claims under oath? Were they lying? Is their testimony not to be trusted?
 
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#43,583
#43,583
BowlBrother85 said:
There is plenty of evidence that the Ukrainian government was well aware in July that the military aid had been withheld and it was presented as evidence by the House.
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Somebody in that Ukrainian government probably should have informed their big boss man why aid was withheld because he was clueless about it according to his statements.
 
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#43,584
#43,584
0nelilreb said:
So when do we change the threat title to .. The Re-Impeachment of Trump ?
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Soon

Seriously, the Democrats should let it go and move on, go back to their den lick their wounds and try to rally around a candidate they think has a chance of winning (good luck with that with that bunch of imbeciles) in November. It would be in the Democrats best interest to cease this sh*tshow of investigation after investigation and hearing after hearing, the American public is sick of it, especially Independent voters. In the interest of self preservation they should step back, take a breath and reevaluate where they are. But ....

they won't. They are rabid now and they won't stop until they're put down. They are on a mission driven by jealousy and hate (and for some the fear of prison sentences) oblivious to the damage they are doing to the image of their own party, but they won't stop. They are literally too stupid to help themselves.
 
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#43,585
#43,585
volinbham said:
Volker isn't lying now unless you can show he changed his testimony to state a specific date in July. His change in testimony didn't change his statement of when Ukraine knew.

Many people testified it was in August - should they not have made those claims under oath? Were they lying? Is their testimony not to be trusted?
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Volker says that Ukrainian officials were aware of the freeze while Trump was still pushing for an investigation into the Bidens. Whether that means they knew in July or August really isn't that important. However, their deputy foreign minister at the time, says they knew in July.
 
#43,587
#43,587
BowlBrother85 said:
Volker says that Ukrainian officials were aware of the freeze while Trump was still pushing for an investigation into the Bidens. Whether that means they knew in July or August really isn't that important. However, their deputy foreign minister at the time, says they knew in July.
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I was responding to your claim that Ukraine knew in July. There is some testimony they did; there is more testimony they did not.

So it's down to which evidence you believe. Volker himself even in revised testimony says it was later in August.
 
#43,590
#43,590
volinbham said:
Volker isn't lying now unless you can show he changed his testimony to state a specific date in July. His change in testimony didn't change his statement of when Ukraine knew.

Many people testified it was in August - should they not have made those claims under oath? Were they lying? Is their testimony not to be trusted?
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Trump was still pushing for an investigation into the Bidens well into August. Trump wanted Zelensky to appear on CNN in late August and announce that he was opening an investigation into the Bidens.
 
#43,591
#43,591
BowlBrother85 said:
Trump was still pushing for an investigation into the Bidens well into August. Trump wanted Zelensky to appear on CNN in late August and announce that he was opening an investigation into the Bidens.
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Yes I know. I was responding to your claim that Ukraine knew in July. Just showing plenty of evidence indicating that is not true.
 
#43,593
#43,593
volinbham said:
He testified it was after the article. So if there's no way he could know he shouldn't have testified he did know and it was in August.

The WaPo article I posted shows more people testifying it was in August (post article/blog) than in July.
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It really doesn't matter because Trump was still pushing for an investigation into the Bidens in late August. Trump wanted Zelensky to appear on CNN and announce that he was opening an investigation into the Bidens. It almost happened. Per CNN producers, they had booked Zelensky for an appearance.
 
#43,594
#43,594
BowlBrother85 said:
It really doesn't matter because Trump was still pushing for an investigation into the Bidens in late August. Trump wanted Zelensky to appear on CNN and announce that he was opening an investigation into the Bidens. It almost happened. Per CNN producers, they had booked Zelensky for an appearance.
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now who's moving the goal post?
 
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#43,595
#43,595
volinbham said:
Yes I know. I was responding to your claim that Ukraine knew in July. Just showing plenty of evidence indicating that is not true.
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It's what their deputy foreign minister at the time says... take it or leave it. She was in a position to know and she has explained how she knew. It isn't clear why she would be lying.
 
#43,596
#43,596
BowlBrother85 said:
It really doesn't matter because Trump was still pushing for an investigation into the Bidens in late August. Trump wanted Zelensky to appear on CNN and announce that he was opening an investigation into the Bidens. It almost happened. Per CNN producers, they had booked Zelensky for an appearance.
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You should have stopped at "It really doesn't matter"
 
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#43,598
#43,598
BowlBrother85 said:
It's what their deputy foreign minister at the time says... take it or leave it. She was in a position to know and she has explained how she knew. It isn't clear why she would be lying.
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Is it clear why the others would be lying? Volker had plenty of contact with Ukraine but testified (in his revised testimony) it was late August. Others too who were in ongoing contact with Ukraine.

IOW - we have conflicting testimony/evidence. Hard to conclude it was one or the other.
 
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#43,599
#43,599
37L1 said:
Maybe she was mistaken. Either way Zelensky said he didn't know.
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She has given very specific details about how she became aware of the freeze and when she discussed the freeze with a top aide to Zelensky. Per Axios:

Olena Zerkal could not recall the exact date she read the cable, but she said she asked for a meeting with a senior aide to Zelensky to discuss the freeze on July 30. She said her ministry received the cable at the same time as Zelensky's presidential administration. Finally, Pentagon official Laura Cooper testified that the Ukrainian Embassy had asked about the aid on July 25, hours after Trump's phone call with Zelensky. That corresponds very well with what the former Ukrainian deputy foreign minister said.
 
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