The Impeachment Thread

#8,580
#8,580
RockyTop85 said:
No. It’s just not. If you think that, you haven’t been paying attention. It’s simply an exercise in personal responsibility.

The whistleblower alleged an attempt to leverage US foreign policy to the president’s personal political advantage and attempting to cover it up.

Trump/Giuliani admitted to asking Ukraine to investigate Biden.
Trump then asked Ukraine (and China) to investigate Biden from the White House lawn. In front of cameras.
Volker’s text messages suggest that there were active measures being taken to condition make clear that relations between US and Ukraine would improve if Ukraine opened this investigation.
The White House has acknowledged moving the call to the server in question.

We are well beyond the degree of proof needed to justify opening an investigation.

The alleged act involves an abuse of office, which they didn’t have for Clinton or Johnson. At this point, there’s more proof than they had on Nixon at the same point in the process.

IIRC, 210 democrats and Amash have publicly voiced support for an impeachment inquiry. There’s been one Republican who voiced support for an investigation. They stopped coming out when Pelosi opened the inquiry because there was no longer a need to pressure her to open an inquiry. The inquiry was opened before the phone memo was released. It was before the complaint was made public. It was before Trump publicly asked Ukraine to help his campaign, and it was before he announced he would obstruct congressional investigations. They need 219 to pass votes thorough the house, IIRC. So the argument that their failure to hold a vote somehow violates due process hangs on Nancy Pelosi’s ability to use the above to whip 7 votes....

The vote itself, has been used to open past impeachment inquiries to establish rules and convey certain powers to the committee chair conducting the investigation. Those Powers were already conferred to those chairs under the rules this (and previous) congresses. Those rules were approved by majority vote.

Half of the public believes Trump should be impeached.

The only bad “precedent” being set is not allowing him to participate in the investigation, which simply makes it just like any criminal investigation in the nation’s history. You don’t have a right to be adversarial during the investigation process. That’s called obstruction.

Oh and I guess we have the allegation that Schiff drafted the complaint being a disqualifying offense. Funny we don’t hold the police or prosecutors to that standard, either. Who do you think drafts warrants and indictments?

It’s all just scrambling to point the finger and say “unfair!” Which is one side setting bad precedent.

Meanwhile, Trump has publicly accused members of the house and Senate of treason, lying, spying... there was a list of like 15 different accusations he’d made floating around earlier. Setting. Bad. Precedent.

The things Trump has done to justify initiation of these proceedings set their own bad precedent.

Additionally, Trump argued that he is immune from criminal investigation due to the constitutional remedy of impeachment. That was, arguably, correct. Now, impeachment is here and he argues that it is illegal and unconstitutional. Essentially he is setting the precedent that the president is above any form of reproach.

This last bit, alone, more than justifies blaming him over the others.

Oh and Mitch McConnel, who will serve as both the administrator of the impeachment court and the foreman of the jury, has already promised an acquittal. Seems like bad precedent but, oddly, I haven’t seen any of the people who can’t move beyond the lionized criminal “justice” mode of due process calling for his recusal.

Seems like this idea that the process is being abused equally by both sides is wholly a result of misinformation put out by one side to provide a permission structure for their base to support abuse of power. Which, again, is one side setting bad precedent.

But I guess Maxine Waters and her psychotic rambling balances that out.
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Apparently you thought I was only referencing the whistleblower thing. I'm talking about the precedents that have been being set since Trump was elected. I think both sides have contributed equally to doing so. You can disagree. That's fine. But my opinion is both sides have played fast and loose with rules and both sides will be responsible as this nonsense is carried into the future.

Trump has done wrong. Dems have done wrong. Republicans have done wrong. You want to single out one individual based on personal feelings and lay the blame at his feet. I'm sure Trump would have led himself into this type of predicament no matter what, that's the type of individual he is. But the Dems have been about undoing a lawful election since the day it happened so I'm not going to sit here and pretend they haven't played dirty as well.

I've expressed my opinion numerous times. I think DC is a cesspool filled with corruption on BOTH sides. I honestly don't understand how anyone can sit back and defend one side over the other when they use the exact same tactics. That's what precedents are. It's a game of tit for tat and it's ridiculous. That is what our government has become.
 
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#8,581
#8,581
VolnJC said:
It is an open investigation
Document reveals Ukraine had already reopened probe of Hunter Biden-linked firm months before Trump phone call
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Ukraine had re-opened an investigation into Burisma Holdings, the firm that Hunter Biden was a board member of, but that is not what Trump was asking Zelensky for on their July 25th phone call. He was asking Zelensky to assist his personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, in specifically investigating the Bidens. This is some pathetic spin from Fox News.
 
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#8,582
#8,582
BowlBrother85 said:
Ukraine had re-opened an investigation into Burisma Holdings, the firm that Hunter Biden was a board member of, but that is not what Trump was asking Zelensky for on their July 25th phone call. He was asking Zelensky to assist his personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, in specifically investigating the Bidens. This is some pathetic spin from Fox News.
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The spin doesn’t justify Trump’s behavior, either.
 
#8,583
#8,583
BowlBrother85 said:
Ukraine had re-opened an investigation into Burisma Holdings, the firm that Hunter Biden was a board member of, but that is not what Trump was asking Zelensky for on their July 25th phone call. He was asking Zelensky to assist his personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, in specifically investigating the Bidens. This is some pathetic spin from Fox News.
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You like to read alot into that call lol...at what point did he ask them that the money would be held up if they didn't help ?
 
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#8,584
#8,584
Guess I'll keep posting this until someone sends me that link
Spin it however you want there is no hard proof of a Quid Pro Quo..
1) the Ukrainians said they were never pressured
2) holdup of money was never discussed
3) the Burisma case was reopened before the call
4) Do us a favor is not an indictment
5) Ukrainians received money without any effort to help administration
If you have proof otherwise send me a link
 
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#8,585
#8,585
VolnJC said:
You like to read alot into that call lol...at what point did he ask them that the money would be held up if they didn't help ?
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The point is, the money HAD been held up and the explanation that Trump has given for the hold has changed... and neither one makes any sense. At first, Trump claimed that he had placed a hold on military aid to the Ukraine because he wanted European countries to share in the burden. That doesn't make sense because no other country even knew that the hold had been placed. This wasn't publicly known on July 25th. Sensing that explanation wouldn't be sufficient, Trump changed his explanation to being concerned over Ukrainian corruption, but that doesn't make any sense either, because both Trump and members of his administration have done business with the Ukraine in the past and continued to. There still hasn't been an explanation for why Trump placed a hold on Congressionally approved military aid to the Ukraine that makes any sense.
 
#8,587
#8,587
VolnJC said:
Guess I'll keep posting this until someone sends me that link
Spin it however you want there is no hard proof of a Quid Pro Quo..
1) the Ukrainians said they were never pressured
2) holdup of money was never discussed
3) the Burisma case was reopened before the call
4) Do us a favor is not an indictment
5) Ukrainians received money without any effort to help administration
If you have proof otherwise send me a link
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1) It is understandable that Zelensky doesn't want to be critical of Trump, while Trump is still in office, but it doesn't matter what he says. We have a transcript of the July 25th phone call and can see what happened for ourselves.

2) Clearly, the Ukraine government knew they hadn't received the military aid. A country that size doesn't overlook $340 million, and they knew there was something that Trump wanted done.

3) The investigation into Burisma Holdings was re-opened, but that is not what Trump was asking Zelensky for. Trump wanted Zelensky to assist his personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, in specifically investigating the Bidens. Trump didn't care about Ukrainian corruption. He wanted dirt on a potential opponent.

4) "Do us a favor, though..." (you left out an important word) is an indication that Trump wanted something done in exchange for the military aid - an investigation of the Bidens.

5) The Ukrainians received the money only after the whistleblower's complaint had been submitted. That put the Trump administration over a barrel. The hold had to be lifted.
 
#8,588
#8,588
zeppelin128 said:
Joe Biden calls for Trump to be impeached - CNNPolitics

He said: "President Trump has indicted himself by obstructing justice, refusing to comply with the congressional inquiry, he's already convicted himself. In full view of the world and the American people, Donald Trump has violated his oath of office, betrayed this nation and committed impeachable acts."
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I fully expect Trump will call for Biden's impeachment now. Of course, Biden can't be impeached, but that won't stop Trump.
 
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#8,590
#8,590
BowlBrother85 said:
The point is, the money HAD been held up and the explanation that Trump has given for the hold has changed... and neither one makes any sense. At first, Trump claimed that he had placed a hold on military aid to the Ukraine because he wanted European countries to share in the burden. That doesn't make sense because no other country even knew that the hold had been placed. This wasn't publicly known on July 25th. Sensing that explanation wouldn't be sufficient, Trump changed his explanation to being concerned over Ukrainian corruption, but that doesn't make any sense either, because both Trump and members of his administration have done business with the Ukraine in the past and continued to. There still hasn't been an explanation for why Trump placed a hold on Congressionally approved military aid to the Ukraine that makes any sense.
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No reason would suffice for the Dems I'll give u a damn good one they worked with the DNC to help sabotage his chances in 2016...he probably wanted to make sure all those cronies were gone
Ukrainian efforts to sabotage Trump backfire
 
#8,591
#8,591
BowlBrother85 said:
1) It is understandable that Zelensky doesn't want to be critical of Trump, while Trump is still in office, but it doesn't matter what he says. We have a transcript of the July 25th phone call and can see what happened for ourselves.

2) Clearly, the Ukraine government knew they hadn't received the military aid. A country that size doesn't overlook $340 million, and they knew there was something that Trump wanted done.

3) The investigation into Burisma Holdings was re-opened, but that is not what Trump was asking Zelensky for. Trump wanted Zelensky to assist his personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, in specifically investigating the Bidens. Trump didn't care about Ukrainian corruption. He wanted dirt on a potential opponent.

4) "Do us a favor, though..." (you left out an important word) is an indication that Trump wanted something done in exchange for the military aid - an investigation of the Bidens.

5) The Ukrainians received the money only after the whistleblower's complaint had been submitted. That put the Trump administration over a barrel. The hold had to be lifted.
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That's alot of words you wrote and 99% of prosecutors would laugh in your face with that The other 1% are probably related to Schiff
 
#8,592
#8,592
VolnJC said:
That's alot of words you wrote and 99% of prosecutors would laugh in your face with that The other 1% are probably related to Schiff
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How would you know, counselor? LOL!

For the record, Fox News's own Judge Andrew Napolitano, agrees with the substance of that post.
 
#8,594
#8,594
Weezer said:
I honestly don't understand how anyone can sit back and defend one side over the other when they use the exact same tactics.
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1570644917134.gif

Nobody who wants accountability for politicians would have read that post as a defense of one side over the other.

Of course they wouldn’t screech “partisanship!” whenever it came to enforcing that accountability, either.

Trump’s conduct, since before he got elected, has made it easier for politicians to get away with grift and corruption by hiding the ball, refusing to accept responsibility, and getting shills he’s just like everybody else and anybody saying otherwise is being partisan.
 
#8,595
#8,595
hUTch2002 said:
I’m not sure how that would be a concession when that was exactly the original point. I didn’t have time to read that long post you made at the time but I saw that same incorrect assertion that Trump asked China for help so I just addressed that one point. For the record, I disagree with most, if not all, of what you said. Some of it was pretty funny though.
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As you say, it was a very long post. It referred to lots of different supporting facts to make a point. What you chose to take issue with wasn’t critical to that point. That seems like a concession, to me. Maybe it was because you didn’t read it, though.
 
#8,596
#8,596
Definitely gonna need more prisons after the Durham report comes out.. or just send them to Gitmo would work
20191009_134157.jpg
 
#8,599
#8,599
zeppelin128 said:
Joe Biden calls for Trump to be impeached - CNNPolitics

He said: "President Trump has indicted himself by obstructing justice, refusing to comply with the congressional inquiry, he's already convicted himself. In full view of the world and the American people, Donald Trump has violated his oath of office, betrayed this nation and committed impeachable acts."
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LMAO...........This certainly is a screech of desperation if there ever was one .
 
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