The Impeachment Thread

#9,126
#9,126
Septic said:
Nobody said I didn't like it, I'm simply suggesting that common sense implies that if it was "perfect," why only release a "memorandum of recollections" instead of the actual tape?

You're ducking the obvious and it's funny to watch you try and spin it.
Click to expand...
I seemed to remember reading somewhere that these calls are not recorded. FWIW.

Such records are typically a rough transcript as a president's phone calls with world leaders are not recorded, according to Richard Haass, president of the Council on Foreign Relations. The formal draft instead relies on National Security Council (NSC) staff who are listening in and taking notes.

Trump's Ukraine call: How are records kept for the president's conversations with world leaders?
 
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#9,127
#9,127
Weezer said:
I'm not placing blame on anyone other than the parties themselves. Both sides chose bad candidates to run, yet the left wants to continue harping about how the right chose Trump. I agree it was a bad choice, but equally as bad was the left picking Hillary. Both sides are guilty of running bad candidates. The idea that only one side is guilty of that is moronic. The idea that one side is more guilty than the other is equally moronic. Both parties screwed up with their selections, and unfortunately, one of the two had to win.
Click to expand...
Only one side ran Trump.
You know what's coming.......
To view the two sides as equally guilty is what is truly moronic. It's practically theoretically impossible for them to be equally guilty, and if and when they ever were, it would just be for a brief time as the two intersected.
 
#9,128
#9,128
luthervol said:
I personally don't believe Hillary is anywhere near Trump's level of horrendous despicability. She is a victim of 30 years of right wing propaganda. What Trump has faced for two and a half years from the left is what Hillary faced for 30 years from the right.
The thing that most made Hillary an undesirable candidate in my view was the knowledge of how much propagandized induced HDS was out there.

Of course we've had this same conversation multiple times.
Click to expand...

Of course, you don't.
 
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#9,129
#9,129
Septic said:
Nobody said I didn't like it, I'm simply suggesting that common sense implies that if it was "perfect," why only release a "memorandum of recollections" instead of the actual tape?

You're ducking the obvious and it's funny to watch you try and spin it.
Click to expand...

Trump has repeatedly asked Pelosi to have a vote. He's poked his finger in her eye, pushing to have a vote. IT may seem equally as obvious that he's withheld requests for a couple of reasons:

(1) To de-legitimize the inquiry. If he submits to their demands, he has given it legitimacy in the eyes of the public.
As his response said, if he submits to demands as made, he sets precedent for the office in the future, and weakens the office the next time Congress tries to strong arm without due process.

(2) To force a vote. There is no denying that there are Ds in red districts that really DO NOT want to weigh in on this thing, as they know it weakens their reelection. Trump could very well be playing politics and playing for congressional seats.

The elephant in the room with this line of argument is that, despite the assurances of the media and liberals on here, there's no proof that Trump did anything wrong. There's a he-said, (who?)-said. There's official documents that seem to support Trump's denials. There's the Ukrainian president saying that nothing underhanded happened, and no pressure was applied.

On the other side, there's the Dems making a circus of this, breaking protocol, trying to try this without a trial, without Trump having the ability to face his accusers. They're pushing for an impeachment and won't even let the public know on whose testimony they're trying to overturn the election.

While Trump is in a discomforting position, the Dems are in a suicidal position.

Why would Trump do anything to stop what they're doing right now?
 
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#9,131
#9,131
37L1 said:
I seemed to remember reading somewhere that these calls are not recorded. FWIW.

Such records are typically a rough transcript as a president's phone calls with world leaders are not recorded, according to Richard Haass, president of the Council on Foreign Relations. The formal draft instead relies on National Security Council (NSC) staff who are listening in and taking notes.

Trump's Ukraine call: How are records kept for the president's conversations with world leaders?
Click to expand...

I don't believe for a second that every phone call in and out of that place isn't recorded.
 
#9,132
#9,132
Septic said:
Of course you didn't, that's kind of the point. I'm suggesting it was potentially scrubbed of damning language.

You're aware that this is the WH's "version" of what was said, right? Not what some non-partisan independent arbiter determined.

Instead of there being any optic of impropriety, release the actual tape in its entirety. Put up or shut up.
Click to expand...
There is no recording..if the Whistleblowers took notes let them testify and let's hear it 20191010_152328.jpg
 
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#9,135
#9,135
Septic said:
Of course you didn't, that's kind of the point. I'm suggesting it was potentially scrubbed of damning language.

You're aware that this is the WH's "version" of what was said, right? Not what some non-partisan independent arbiter determined.

Instead of there being any optic of impropriety, release the actual tape in its entirety. Put up or shut up.
Click to expand...
Why should he? The dems won't even tell us who made the accusations that there was something creepy in the actual conversation. It seems to me that we ignore the accusations until the Dems put up or shut up.
 
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#9,136
#9,136
37L1 said:
I seemed to remember reading somewhere that these calls are not recorded. FWIW.

Such records are typically a rough transcript as a president's phone calls with world leaders are not recorded, according to Richard Haass, president of the Council on Foreign Relations. The formal draft instead relies on National Security Council (NSC) staff who are listening in and taking notes.

Trump's Ukraine call: How are records kept for the president's conversations with world leaders?
Click to expand...

I remembered it the same way. Apparently dims (at least anti-Trumpists) are dreaming and drooling over the Nixon tapes. They ran that one into the ground years ago; nobody in his right mind is going there again.
 
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#9,139
#9,139
Orange_Crush said:
Trump has repeatedly asked Pelosi to have a vote. He's poked his finger in her eye, pushing to have a vote. IT may seem equally as obvious that he's withheld requests for a couple of reasons:

(1) To de-legitimize the inquiry. If he submits to their demands, he has given it legitimacy in the eyes of the public.
As his response said, if he submits to demands as made, he sets precedent for the office in the future, and weakens the office the next time Congress tries to strong arm without due process.

(2) To force a vote. There is no denying that there are Ds in red districts that really DO NOT want to weigh in on this thing, as they know it weakens their reelection. Trump could very well be playing politics and playing for congressional seats.

The elephant in the room with this line of argument is that, despite the assurances of the media and liberals on here, there's no proof that Trump did anything wrong. There's a he-said, (who?)-said. There's official documents that seem to support Trump's denials. There's the Ukrainian president saying that nothing underhanded happened, and no pressure was applied.

On the other side, there's the Dems making a circus of this, breaking protocol, trying to try this without a trial, without Trump having the ability to face his accusers. They're pushing for an impeachment and won't even let the public know on whose testimony they're trying to overturn the election.

While Trump is in a discomforting position, the Dems are in a suicidal position.

Why would Trump do anything to stop what they're doing right now?
Click to expand...

He doesn't have a choice, he's not in control of the narrative.

Everyday he's sinking deeper. Two weeks ago it was unthinkable to pass a vote, today it's plausible they'd get what they needed - give it a couple of weeks. It's trending poorly for Donald. Moreover, Pelosi knows that whether she gets and impeachment vote now or in a month, he's not going to suddenly cooperate. I said it earlier, I think you overestimate the support for trump.
 
#9,141
#9,141
Orange_Crush said:
Why should he? The dems won't even tell us who made the accusations that there was something creepy in the actual conversation. It seems to me that we ignore the accusations until the Dems put up or shut up.
Click to expand...

Because he only cares about winning, if he could shut them down he would. Public sentiment is not trending in his favor.
 
#9,142
#9,142
AM64 said:
Check with the NSA, and find a friendly FISA judge, but your side absolutely torched that bridge, so good luck with that.
Click to expand...

When you say "your side" all I see and hear is "screeeeetch."

Stop doing that.
 
#9,144
#9,144
Orange_Crush said:
Trump has repeatedly asked Pelosi to have a vote. He's poked his finger in her eye, pushing to have a vote. IT may seem equally as obvious that he's withheld requests for a couple of reasons:

(1) To de-legitimize the inquiry. If he submits to their demands, he has given it legitimacy in the eyes of the public.
As his response said, if he submits to demands as made, he sets precedent for the office in the future, and weakens the office the next time Congress tries to strong arm without due process.

(2) To force a vote. There is no denying that there are Ds in red districts that really DO NOT want to weigh in on this thing, as they know it weakens their reelection. Trump could very well be playing politics and playing for congressional seats.

The elephant in the room with this line of argument is that, despite the assurances of the media and liberals on here, there's no proof that Trump did anything wrong. There's a he-said, (who?)-said. There's official documents that seem to support Trump's denials. There's the Ukrainian president saying that nothing underhanded happened, and no pressure was applied.

On the other side, there's the Dems making a circus of this, breaking protocol, trying to try this without a trial, without Trump having the ability to face his accusers. They're pushing for an impeachment and won't even let the public know on whose testimony they're trying to overturn the election.

While Trump is in a discomforting position, the Dems are in a suicidal position.

Why would Trump do anything to stop what they're doing right now?
Click to expand...

Oh, and:

(3) Trump has the democrats and their supportive media screaming from the mountaintops how horrible it is to get in bed with foreign countries in support of US election swaying. He has them screaming how horrible abuse of power and corruption is for personal gain. He has them calling for blood and telling the American public how anyone who does something like that is unfit for office and to hold any power.

(4) He has the Democrats calling for an investigation into Ukrainian corruption, where Biden's son was on an energy board, making roughly $600,000/yr with no skills to speak of. Where the Obama administration admittedly used power and tax dollars as threats to get a Ukrainian prosecutor fired. The prosecutor that was investigating the corporation that was paying Biden's son roughly $600,000/yr.

lol

I'm not saying that any of that is proof that bad mojo was going down, nor that Trump is innocent. But you ask for scenarios that Trump is innocent and doesn't release the full transcript?

OK.
 
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#9,145
#9,145
Orange_Crush said:
Why should he? The dems won't even tell us who made the accusations that there was something creepy in the actual conversation. It seems to me that we ignore the accusations until the Dems put up or shut up.
Click to expand...

The IG seems to believe they were credible, must have been an Obama appointee.
 
#9,146
#9,146
Orange_Crush said:
Why should he? The dems won't even tell us who made the accusations that there was something creepy in the actual conversation. It seems to me that we ignore the accusations until the Dems put up or shut up.
Click to expand...

You really have to wonder just how many people were lurking around or listening in on that phone call ... must have been a crowded place. It's hard to imagine from the notes how a virulent anti-Trumper desperate enough to make something of nothing could still have been in the WH legally and not have previously give himself or herself away. I'm beginning to think Scott Pruitt was on to something when he had the phone booth installed in his office.
 
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#9,147
#9,147
VolStrom said:
According to what? A poll(s)? LOL!
Click to expand...

Rudy Giuliani Likes Fox News Poll Tweet Showing Record Support for Trump’s Impeachment


ActiveUnrulyAsiaticlesserfreshwaterclam-size_restricted.gif
 
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#9,148
#9,148
Septic said:
He doesn't have a choice, he's not in control of the narrative.

Everyday he's sinking deeper. Two weeks ago it was unthinkable to pass a vote, today it's plausible they'd get what they needed - give it a couple of weeks. It's trending poorly for Donald. Moreover, Pelosi knows that whether she gets and impeachment vote now or in a month, he's not going to suddenly cooperate. I said it earlier, I think you overestimate the support for trump.
Click to expand...
So, you want to move on from the request that I answered--to name a scenario where Trump is innocent and doesn't release the full call?

And I think you underestimate. As I've said all along, it'll be fun if this plays out in public and the truth comes out.
 
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