The Liberal Argument for a Higher Minimum Wage

#301
#301
IPleadInsanity said:
Why should anyone be forced to work. We can print money. Just print and send to everyone each week. Screw wages!
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Even better. Push it to the limit and force the morons supporting this crap to finally admit it is economically stupid.[/QUOTE]
 
#302
#302
GroverCleveland said:
Even better. Push it to the limit and force the morons supporting this crap to finally admit it is economically stupid.
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[/QUOTE]

Because you can lead libs to knowledge, but you can't make them learn. You'd think any number of failed socialist paradises would have helped them understand, but they still defy reason and understanding.
 
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#303
#303
AM64 said:
Because you can lead libs to knowledge, but you can't make them learn. You'd think any number of failed socialist paradises would have helped them understand, but they still defy reason and understanding.
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Yet we have a Republican president and his supporters achieving the same level of stupidity with a similar policy (trade protectionism). There are so many parallels between the effects of minimum wage and protectionism, and both are on the same basic level of economic literacy.
  • both policies are intended for the sake of American workers
  • both interrupt the free market
  • both artificially increase market prices
  • both inadvertently cost us jobs
  • both are tools for doling out favors
  • both most often fail to accomplish their goals
 
#304
#304
n_huffhines said:
Yet we have a Republican president and his supporters achieving the same level of stupidity with a similar policy (trade protectionism). There are so many parallels between the effects of minimum wage and protectionism, and both are on the same basic level of economic literacy.
  • both policies are intended for the sake of American workers
  • both interrupt the free market
  • both artificially increase market prices
  • both inadvertently cost us jobs
  • both are tools for doling out favors
  • both most often fail to accomplish their goals
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So when other countries manipulate, we are just supposed to bend over, turn the other cheek, and ask for seconds?
 
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#305
#305
AM64 said:
So when other countries manipulate, we are just supposed to bend over, turn the other cheek, and ask for seconds?
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We manipulate too.

Why do you choose to believe in a false dichotomy where you either launch trade wars or get butt ****ed ?

"No minimum wage hike? So we are just supposed to bend over to corporations, turn the other cheek, and ask for seconds?"
 
#306
#306
n_huffhines said:
We manipulate too.

Why do you choose to believe in a false dichotomy where you either launch trade wars or get butt ****ed ?

"No minimum wage hike? So we are just supposed to bend over to corporations, turn the other cheek, and ask for seconds?"
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I didn't actually address minimum wage hikes, but I will. It's a stupid policy that has helped insure that US labor doesn't compete equally against foreign countries. An economics professor said that minimum wage hikes "ratified" union wage increases ... a continued upward spiral (of course, that was 50 years ago when strikes were an everyday thing - something that we are paying dearly for right now).

I would hope we manipulate as necessary. How about an example of wanton, aggressive US manipulation without provocation? What about Chinese theft of intellectual material and theft of know how from industrial plants built there by other countries ... a self inflicted wound by us and others or just another form of economic manipulation by China?
 
#307
#307
AM64 said:
I didn't actually address minimum wage hikes, but I will. It's a stupid policy that has helped insure that US labor doesn't compete equally against foreign countries. An economics professor said that minimum wage hikes "ratified" union wage increases ... a continued upward spiral (of course, that was 50 years ago when strikes were an everyday thing - something that we are paying dearly for right now).

I would hope we manipulate as necessary. How about an example of wanton, aggressive US manipulation without provocation? What about Chinese theft of intellectual material and theft of know how from industrial plants built there by other countries ... a self inflicted wound by us and others or just another form of economic manipulation by China?
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None of this changes the fact that Trump and his cohorts made false arguments about trade policy being about jobs. China isn't the only trading partner and he's increased protectionism with many different countries. So if you're saying China is the only case where we should be launching a trade war, specifically because of IP, then that's a completely different argument. But I'm guessing you're fine with all of Trump's protectionism?
 
#308
#308
n_huffhines said:
None of this changes the fact that Trump and his cohorts made false arguments about trade policy being about jobs. China isn't the only trading partner and he's increased protectionism with many different countries. So if you're saying China is the only case where we should be launching a trade war, specifically because of IP, then that's a completely different argument. But I'm guessing you're fine with all of Trump's protectionism?
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I used China as a handy example. However, there are a few multinational cartels around the world ... that covers a lot of other ground. There's plenty of funny stuff in the aircraft industry, and I'm unconvinced that Airbus isn't still subsidized (if nothing else through socialized programs and taxes ... there are plenty of ways to play that game). Our aircraft industry is free to sell to any number of other countries as long as planes or parts are built there. But I'm still curious about a case of wanton, aggressive US manipulation without provocation. Helium was the last thing I can think of that fit the category, but that was largely because the Germans used products incorporating helium in novel ways.
 
#309
#309
tumscalcium said:
Yes we do.

We also reward bad decision makers.
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No we don’t. Factory jobs hire unskilled labor. Put widget on that thingamagig and do it over and over.

We don’t reward that, and much of those jobs are being done with foreign labor.
 
#310
#310
AM64 said:
I used China as a handy example. However, there are a few multinational cartels around the world ... that covers a lot of other ground. There's plenty of funny stuff in the aircraft industry, and I'm unconvinced that Airbus isn't still subsidized (if nothing else through socialized programs and taxes ... there are plenty of ways to play that game). Our aircraft industry is free to sell to any number of other countries as long as planes or parts are built there. But I'm still curious about a case of wanton, aggressive US manipulation without provocation. Helium was the last thing I can think of that fit the category, but that was largely because the Germans used products incorporating helium in novel ways.
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What do you consider manipulation? Are you using that interchangeably with "protectionism"?

Sounds like you are saying you support initiations of modest protectionism, and aggressive retaliatory protectionism?
 
#313
#313
Orange_Vol1321 said:
Meanwhile, they can't count correct change back. No wonder.

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I saw a 19 year old kid over the weekend that couldn’t count out $1.69 in change to the store owner for his purchase . I asked about it after he left to make sure I saw it right , she said he was just one of many that come in there like that . Really sad .
 
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#315
#315
utvolpj said:
There is nothing wrong with teaching kids multiple ways to solve a problem. It's actually something that is needed in this world.
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There is something wrong with teaching them a worse way to do things. I have no clue how the rest of common core works, but at least in math terms its counterproductive.
 
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#316
#316
LouderVol said:
There is something wrong with teaching them a worse way to do things. I have no clue how the rest of common core works, but at least in math terms its counterproductive.
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Not really. That is likely teaching them how to break things down which is what people do when doing math in their head. It's such a short clip really showing nothing so it's hard to draw any real conclusions from it. I don't agree with forcing kids to only use one method and teaching multiple way is beneficial. Even today I don't solve problems in my job the same way my other group members do. It actually makes us better imo
 
#318
#318
utvolpj said:
Not really. That is likely teaching them how to break things down which is what people do when doing math in their head. It's such a short clip really showing nothing so it's hard to draw any real conclusions from it. I don't agree with forcing kids to only use one method and teaching multiple way is beneficial. Even today I don't solve problems in my job the same way my other group members do. It actually makes us better imo
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If someone else cant check your math that seems like it would be a huge problem.

I was always taught at least two ways to do the math problem. The first way that took longer, then once you mastered it you were taught the simple way that removes half the work. Why the extra steps? Math is about simplifying numbers, not complicating them.
 
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#319
#319
LouderVol said:
If someone else cant check your math that seems like it would be a huge problem.

I was always taught at least two ways to do the math problem. The first way that took longer, then once you mastered it you were taught the simple way that removes half the work. Why the extra steps? Math is about simplifying numbers, not complicating them.
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it's 30sec of a lesson. Maybe that's the long way? It's a tweet meant to deceive. Understanding why is as important as how imo but it's rarely taught anymore. No need to check work on a multiple choice test
 
#320
#320
utvolpj said:
it's 30sec of a lesson. Maybe that's the long way? It's a tweet meant to deceive. Understanding why is as important as how imo but it's rarely taught anymore. No need to check work on a multiple choice test
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Your field works from multiple choice tests? What field might that be?

We should be focusing on teaching them real world stuff. All this does is steepening the curve between schooling and real world.
 
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#321
#321
LouderVol said:
Your field works from multiple choice tests? What field might that be?

We should be focusing on teaching them real world stuff. All this does is steepening the curve between schooling and real world.
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No, schools teach to multiple choice tests rather than teaching why things work.

How does that video show what they're actually teaching anyway? It was cut up to prove a point. What grade is this? What is the lesson? What else is being taught?
 
#322
#322
utvolpj said:
No, schools teach to multiple choice tests rather than teaching why things work.

How does that video show what they're actually teaching anyway? It was cut up to prove a point. What grade is this? What is the lesson? What else is being taught?
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You're right, this one tweet failed to sum up a whole school year of education. Why was it even addressing one specific problem?

Never understood the logic behind multiple guess questions.
 
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