The (many) indictments of Donald Trump

#14,754
#14,754
volinbham said:
should have never been nominated? you wish to take agency away from others who don't think like you?
Click to expand...
I have absolutely no problem saying he should have never been nominated. I'm not saying they didn't have the right to nominate him, only that it was stupid and wrong to do so.
 
#14,755
#14,755
luthervol said:
It's much more that I voted AGAINST Trump.
Can you guys comprehend that?

There are tens of millions who will rightfully vote against Trump no matter what.
Yet you knuckleheads keep nominating him.
It's like you want Biden to win.
Click to expand...
A vote against Trump is a vote for a pedo dementia patient.

But I don’t expect you to grasp that concept. After all you did vote for the guy that showered with his daughter the first time around.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SpaceCoastVol and LibertyVol
#14,757
#14,757
RockyTop85 said:
I agree with that analysis as to most of the people involved in the physical rioting, but I don’t think it extends to the candidate or the campaign.

Do you disagree that the plan was to secure an unelected second “term” for Trump?

At that point, doesn’t it cease to be “our government,” even if he continues to exercise executive control over the same government agencies an institutions.

The riot also wasn’t the only step taken in furtherance of that objective. There was the whole process of organizing the production of fake electoral votes and having them submitted plus the request and subsequent pressure campaign on Pence to open them instead of the legitimate votes.

Their objective was to establish what would be properly categorized as a form of dictatorship and they took steps to try to see that objective come to fruition. It ultimately failed, but they still tried.
Click to expand...

If this paragraph is true, it is problematic voter fraud and definitely should be addressed.
 
#14,758
#14,758
luthervol said:
So you didn't want Biden or Trump to win equally?
Or are you saying you refused to acknowledge the fact that it was going to be one or the other?
Or are you acknowledging that fact yet still refusing to vote for either.....because you didn't care who won or lost.

Here's the hypothetical (which was actually pretty much the reality).......
Pick one of the two choices.
_____ Trump wins and I don't vote for Biden.
_____ I vote for Biden and Trump loses.

Those were the two ultimate choices on the grand scale.

Did you care who won and who lost between Biden and Trump?
I guess it boils down to your answer to that simple question.....no need to dodge.
Click to expand...
Oh I admit that the winner was coming from one of 2 limited choices. I also acknowledge this is because many will stupidly vote against their best interests to win the political contest. It's no longer about policy its simply red v blue as you so often point out. The good of the country be dammed

There were more than 2 choices on every ballot in the country. You pose your hypotheticals because you've been conned into believing those are the only options. The 2 parties have set and adjusted the election rules so that they are the only options left standing and you support it. I vote based on what policies would best suit myself, my family and this country. You vote for a hand picked party puppet simply because you don't like the other guy.

Stop supporting people who don't support you
 
  • Like
Reactions: SpaceCoastVol and whodeycin85
#14,759
#14,759
  • Like
Reactions: luthervol
#14,760
#14,760
utvolpj said:
Oh I admit that the winner was coming from one of 2 limited choices. I also acknowledge this is because many will stupidly vote against their best interests to win the political contest. It's no longer about policy its simply red v blue as you so often point out. The good of the country be dammed

There were more than 2 choices on every ballot in the country. You pose your hypotheticals because you've been conned into believing those are the only options. The 2 parties have set and adjusted the election rules so that they are the only options left standing and you support it. I vote based on what policies would best suit myself, my family and this country. You vote for a hand picked party puppet simply because you don't like the other guy.

Stop supporting people who don't support you
Click to expand...

Even a lot of the major Independent candidates seem to be out there for me right now. Most are just one issue focused and often more radical about that issue than the mainstream candidates.

Kennedy might be the most interesting one that we have had since Ross Perot.
 
#14,761
#14,761
#14,762
#14,762
utvolpj said:
Oh I admit that the winner was coming from one of 2 limited choices. I also acknowledge this is because many will stupidly vote against their best interests to win the political contest. It's no longer about policy its simply red v blue as you so often point out. The good of the country be dammed

There were more than 2 choices on every ballot in the country. You pose your hypotheticals because you've been conned into believing those are the only options. The 2 parties have set and adjusted the election rules so that they are the only options left standing and you support it. I vote based on what policies would best suit myself, my family and this country. You vote for a hand picked party puppet simply because you don't like the other guy.

Stop supporting people who don't support you
Click to expand...

I vote for the best among the viable choices. Pure and simple. Always have and always will.

The fact that so often our viable choices suck is a completely different issue and one that is not best addressed on election day.........even though that is when the puppet masters hope people choose to voice their displeasure.
 
#14,763
#14,763
luthervol said:
I vote for the best among the viable choices. Pure and simple. Always have and always will.

The fact that so often our viable choices suck is a completely different issue and one that is not best addressed on election day.........even though that is when the puppet masters hope people choose to voice their displeasure.
Click to expand...
What you call viable comes from a rigged system. It's designed by the very people you support to limit your ability to find and vote for better candidates.
 
#14,764
#14,764
volfanhill said:
Whats the Biden DOJ waiting on for the insurrection charge?
Click to expand...

First, the DOJ is not acting at the behest of Biden. That myth has been debunked so many times I've lost count. But I know you like that phraseology, as intentionally misleading as it is, so let's move on.

Second, what do you mean by what are they waiting on? Smith wants to try Trump before the election. Trump's team is doing everything they can to delay it until after the election -- same with the classified documents case.

I think we all know what his game plan is, and if he wins it involves pardoning himself either the day after he is sworn in, or the last day he is in office if the cases are stayed pending his presidency. He'd prefer the latter as its a little less embarrassing to him, of course, and pardoning himself is not a good look for the first week in office.

SpaceCoastVol said:
Exactly, because it would have been improper to speculate on an insurrection fantasy that isn't before them. But I'm guessing you were hoping for some sort of Perry Mason moment
Click to expand...

No, I predicted this result many weeks ago. I did not think they would take up the big picture issue -- there was no need to.


VOLS INC. said:
We both know he’s not happy. If this would have went the other way, he would have immediately started a thread asking/ suggesting how the GOP should proceed. He would have lectured us on why this was the correct ruling. And it all would have been saturated in ignorance and TDS, because that’s all his brain can produce these days. He hates Trump more than he loves this country. That’s obvious.
Click to expand...

I'd have been very surprised if the Court had come down the other way. Concluding that its up for Congress to decide is perfectly sensible given the history of the amendments. Having the states do it piecemeal is problematic, though there is a certain sense of irony here in that the only mechanism by which the Republicans have managed to win the Presidency the last few outings is via the electoral college, which is the paragon of the role of a state in federal elections.

volbound1700 said:
This came up in another forum where I was defending Obama's drone attacks. I am curious to why you think Jan 6 was an insurrection?

Here is why I don't consider it one:

1. The group that storm the capital had no political support or means to actually overthrow our government, even if their main goals were accomplished
2. The threat quickly subsided after Jan 6 and there isn't any clear threat today (or even by Jan 7)

To me, it was more of a riot. Definitely they should have been prosecuted, I won't argue it there. However, I don't see how this "insurrection" could have effectively changed our government or any of the results.

It seems very overblown and political theater to me which is what drives me nuts about our politics in general. I would love to hear your viewpoint, however. I am also saying this in good faith and will read your input. I am hoping you take the same constructive view with me.

I don't like Trump and think he is a very sore loser but I also have a hard time tying him until a real attempt to overthrow our government. I do think Biden legitimately won the election, but I can also understand why Trump asked questions about the results.
Click to expand...

Its a reasonable debate. I am not persuaded by the fact that they failed or that it was short-lived. Had they shown up at the Mall and thrown some chairs around or overturned a car or two, ok, riot. But when they went into the Capitol, causing so much damage and using force to overcome security, then occupied the chamber, caused Congresspeople to scurry to save their lives, and were chanting such things as "Hang Mike Pence," to me that went well over the line from "riot" to "insurrection."

That they sucked at it doesn't change what it was.
 
  • Like
Reactions: volbound1700
#14,765
#14,765
volbound1700 said:
Key being charges. We got the same crap going on with Biden's impeachment right now as well. Most of these cases are coming off bogus once they get out of a politically charged court.
Click to expand...
I don’t understand what you’re getting at.

It’s a matter of public record that the documents were submitted to the national archives along with the legitimate EC votes. (You can google the documents that were submitted to national archives, I think they’ve been posted here, before.)

It’s a matter of record which electoral college documents were certified by the existing process in their states.

There are internal campaign emails and other memoranda that have been circulated and, IIRC, authenticated by their authors, explaining how it was supposed to work (You can google the Eastman Memo).

The Nevada attorney general, for example, said state law doesn’t contemplate this as a crime, so they couldn’t prosecute it. The constitution’s Ex Post Facto Clause would prohibit a legislature from passing laws and then prosecuting them under those new laws.

So I don’t agree that some states failing to prosecute them under existing state laws means that those things didn’t happen or that it wasn’t an attempt to secure an unelected second “term,” if that’s what you’re saying. But I also don’t really know what you’re referring to with the last sentence.
 
  • Like
Reactions: volbound1700
#14,766
#14,766
lawgator1 said:
First, the DOJ is not acting at the behest of Biden. That myth has been debunked so many times I've lost count. But I know you like that phraseology, as intentionally misleading as it is, so let's move on.

Second, what do you mean by what are they waiting on? Smith wants to try Trump before the election. Trump's team is doing everything they can to delay it until after the election -- same with the classified documents case.

I think we all know what his game plan is, and if he wins it involves pardoning himself either the day after he is sworn in, or the last day he is in office if the cases are stayed pending his presidency. He'd prefer the latter as its a little less embarrassing to him, of course, and pardoning himself is not a good look for the first week in office.



No, I predicted this result many weeks ago. I did not think they would take up the big picture issue -- there was no need to.




I'd have been very surprised if the Court had come down the other way. Concluding that its up for Congress to decide is perfectly sensible given the history of the amendments. Having the states do it piecemeal is problematic, though there is a certain sense of irony here in that the only mechanism by which the Republicans have managed to win the Presidency the last few outings is via the electoral college, which is the paragon of the role of a state in federal elections.



Its a reasonable debate. I am not persuaded by the fact that they failed or that it was short-lived. Had they shown up at the Mall and thrown some chairs around or overturned a car or two, ok, riot. But when they went into the Capitol, causing so much damage and using force to overcome security, then occupied the chamber, caused Congresspeople to scurry to save their lives, and were chanting such things as "Hang Mike Pence," to me that went well over the line from "riot" to "insurrection."

That they sucked at it doesn't change what it was.
Click to expand...
It took Garland two years to think “insurerction” might have happened?
Also, where is he charging Trump with insurrection?
 
  • Like
Reactions: RockyTop85
#14,767
#14,767
utvolpj said:
What you call viable comes from a rigged system. It's designed by the very people you support to limit your ability to find and vote for better candidates.
Click to expand...
Nothing that you have said provides any reason for throwing a vote away on a non-viable candidate on election day.

And that is what we are discussing.

I'm all for changing the system. Bringing in a 3rd party. Ranked voting. Etc.......

But in the meantime, I'll continue to cast my vote based on which viable candidate would best suit myself, my family and this country.
 
#14,768
#14,768
RockyTop85 said:
I don’t understand what you’re getting at.

It’s a matter of public record that the documents were submitted to the national archives along with the legitimate EC votes. (You can google the documents that were submitted to national archives, I think they’ve been posted here, before.)

It’s a matter of record which electoral college documents were certified by the existing process in their states.

There are internal campaign emails and other memoranda that have been circulated and, IIRC, authenticated by their authors, explaining how it was supposed to work (You can google the Eastman Memo).

The Nevada attorney general, for example, said state law doesn’t contemplate this as a crime, so they couldn’t prosecute it. The constitution’s Ex Post Facto Clause would prohibit a legislature from passing laws and then prosecuting them under those new laws.

So I don’t agree that some states failing to prosecute them under existing state laws means that those things didn’t happen or that it wasn’t an attempt to secure an unelected second “term,” if that’s what you’re saying. But I also don’t really know what you’re referring to with the last sentence.
Click to expand...

My point is that none of it has been proven yet. It is in court. Basically innocent until found guilty argument. There has also been a lot of fraud around these court proceedings (see Fani Willis situation right now).

I would rather wait until this sort itself out. There is a lot of weaponization of the court/justice system in our society to go after the opposition. Sadly, I have even seen it at the state level.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RockyTop85
#14,769
#14,769
luthervol said:
Nothing that you have said provides any reason for throwing a vote away on a non-viable candidate on election day.

And that is what we are discussing.

I'm all for changing the system. Bringing in a 3rd party. Ranked voting. Etc.......

But in the meantime, I'll continue to cast my vote based on which viable candidate would best suit myself, my family and this country.
Click to expand...
The 2 party system of viable candidates is serving up TrumpvBiden II. Two of the worst candidates in my life and you've requested seconds.

You don't want a 3rd party as the one you support has rigged the system against a possible 3rd entry. They're cheating this country so they can control it
 
#14,770
#14,770
utvolpj said:
The 2 party system of viable candidates is serving up TrumpvBiden II. Two of the worst candidates in my life and you've requested seconds.

You don't want a 3rd party as the one you support has rigged the system against a possible 3rd entry. They're cheating this country so they can control it
Click to expand...

I voted for DeSantis in the recent Republican Primary, does that count as a protest vote against Trump?
 
  • Like
Reactions: whodeycin85
#14,771
#14,771
utvolpj said:
The 2 party system of viable candidates is serving up TrumpvBiden II. Two of the worst candidates in my life and you've requested seconds.

You don't want a 3rd party as the one you support has rigged the system against a possible 3rd entry. They're cheating this country so they can control it
Click to expand...

The Biden administratio has been quite successful--passed some very significant legislation that is and will be good for the country and the people.
Republicans are running around trying to take credit for infrastructure projects in their districts when they voted against the legislation (which passed anyway). Classic GOP. The Chips & Science Act is very significant--a landmark bill. Lots more---read about it.

 
  • Like
Reactions: luthervol
#14,773
#14,773
utvolpj said:
The 2 party system of viable candidates is serving up TrumpvBiden II. Two of the worst candidates in my life and you've requested seconds.

You don't want a 3rd party as the one you support has rigged the system against a possible 3rd entry. They're cheating this country so they can control it
Click to expand...
I requested seconds? WTH?? You have to know that's BS.
I don't want a 3rd party? That's ridiculous.

Not a word of what you said made sense.

You seem to read a lot into the fact that I vote for the best viable option.....things that are simply not logically there.
You are no more desirous of change than I am. Nor are you doing any more to bring about that desired change.
 
#14,774
#14,774
turbovol said:
The Biden administratio has been quite successful--passed some very significant legislation that is and will be good for the country and the people.
Republicans are running around trying to take credit for infrastructure projects in their districts when they voted against the legislation (which passed anyway). Classic GOP. The Chips & Science Act is very significant--a landmark bill. Lots more---read about it.

Click to expand...
The trillions upon trillions being printed go against your partisan narrative. Hundreds of billions to go prop up multiple foreign wars and putting our country on the brink of entering ourselves. Erasure of our southern border. By any rational measure, this admin has been devastating to this country
 
  • Like
Reactions: NurseGoodVol and 825VOL
#14,775
#14,775
luthervol said:
I requested seconds? WTH?? You have to know that's BS.
I don't want a 3rd party? That's ridiculous.

Not a word of what you said made sense.

You seem to read a lot into the fact that I vote for the best viable option.....things that are simply not logically there.
You are no more desirous of change than I am. Nor are you doing any more to bring about that desired change.
Click to expand...
The party you continually support blocks any potential 3rd party from getting equal time. It's impossible to support them and actually want a 3rd party
 
  • Like
Reactions: volbound1700
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top