The (many) indictments of Donald Trump

I'm not saying your wrong, your being asked to prove your claims, everyone else has cited links. Yours if well you have to take my word for it...would you take Trumps word for it without proof??? Obviously not..and his opinion of just thinking it does have merit according to some lawyers...so back you claims up or STFU and quit whining.
Some do take Trump's word for it without proof and those that know better the don't get the treatment displayed in your quoted posts above. Second, you are not my boss and do some research and quit the tunnel vision. Provocation will continue and you are some real bad A$$ behind that keyboard. Whining is all you do. Internet and Jailhouse law degree keep dying on that sword. Still waiting on the contents of Hillary's server. Wonder what was revealed and what was buried by the Govt. Again, when the contents of Trump's case as you say declassified documents are revealed to the public, we can start the conversation up then. Otherwise, my Career has nothing to do it. Thought I would share, but not worth the BS.
 
Just skimmed it.
This case, Richardson, interprets a specific statute and so the holding applies narrowly to that statute, not broadly to all statutes that mention another crime.

It does do a good job of explaining what I was trying to describe in my other post:

“Calling a particular kind of fact an "element" carries certain legal consequences. Almendarez-Torres v. United States, 523 U. S. 224, 239 (1998). The consequence that matters for this case is that a jury in a federal criminal case cannot convict unless it unanimously finds that the Government has proved each element. Johnson v. Louisiana, 406 U. S. 356, 369-371 (1972) (Powell, J., concurring); Andres v. United States, 333 U. S. 740, 748 (1948); Fed. Rule Crim. Proc. 31(a).

The question before us arises because a federal jury need not always decide unanimously which of several possible sets of underlying brute facts make up a particular element, say, which of several possible means the defendant used to commit an element of the crime. Schad v. Arizona, 501 U. S. 624, 631-632 (1991) (plurality opinion); Andersen v. United States, 170 U. S. 481, 499-501 (1898). Where, for example, an element of robbery is force or the threat of force, some jurors might conclude that the defendant used a knife to create the threat; others might conclude he used a gun. But that disagreement—a disagreement about means—would not matter as long as all 12 jurors unanimously concluded that the Government had proved the necessary related element, namely, that the defendant had threatened force. See McKoy v. North Carolina, 494 U. S. 433, 449 (1990) (Blackmun, J., concurring).

In this case, we must decide whether the statute's phrase "series of violations" refers to one element, namely a "series," in respect to which the "violations" constitute the underlying brute facts or means, or whether those words *818 create several elements, namely the several "violations," in respect to each of which the jury must agree unanimously and separately.”

First bold part: What I’m saying is that “another crime” as used in the New York statute looks to be more like a “brute fact” than an “element” and that is consistent with how the NY Appellate Division has treated it.

Second bold part: this is where it’s clear it’s an issue of statutory interpretation. “Jury must be unanimous as to the elements” is the constitutional rule. Whether something is an element or a “brute fact” is a matter of statutory interpretation. So since this is a different statute, it could lead to a different outcome. I think New York’s high court, whatever they call it, is who gets to decide the meaning of their statutes, not SCOTUS, but I’m less certain about that when it’s tangential to a constitutional rule.

Also of note: he’s very careful to repeatedly mention *in federal cases* when citing the rule of unanimity. That has since been applied to the states, but I think it only happened in the past 5 years or so.
Expanding on Breyer’s hypothetical:
I go to rob a McDonald’s. I run in waiving a pair of scissors around, but I have a gun visibly holstered on my hip.

Jurors 1-4 believe I have used the scissors to commit the robbery.
Jurors 5-8 believe I have used the gun to commit the robbery.
Jurors 9-12 believe I have used both.

Should I be acquitted of the aggravated robbery, because the jurors don’t unanimously agree which item was the deadly weapon?

Should I be acquitted of employment of a firearm during the commission of a dangerous felony because the jurors don’t agree whether the firearm was employed?

The answer to the second hypothetical is obviously yes. The jurors don’t agree whether I employed the firearm and that’s an element.

I think the answer to the first just as obviously no. The jurors agree that I used a deadly weapon or object fashioned into a deadly weapon. That’s the element. What the weapon was isn’t an element.

What I’m saying is that intent to defraud, including intent to commit, aid, or conceal another crime... the intent is the element. Asking “what other crime” is like asking which weapon I used to rob the bank.
 






🇺🇸Travis🇺🇸
@Travis_4_Trump

JUST IN: Judge Juan Merchan just got exposed for his corruption by the jury, and now we know why he broke tradition and didn’t give written instruction to the jury. Yesterday, the jury asked for a repeat of specific instruction, and Merchan decided to just send them home.

Today, we now know what it was they wanted repeated. It was a metaphor from Judge Merchan in which he said “ suppose you wake up in the morning and it’s not raining, but the streets are wet and people are wearing raincoats and holding umbrellas. Under those circumstances you may conclude that it rained during the night.”

The Judge is essentially telling the jury that even though you don’t see proof of a crime, it’s reasonable to assume one occurred. This is next level corruption! Throw this Judge, his daughter, and the entire prosecution in jail!
 
At the Federal Level, it runs against the spirit of the 6th Amendment regarding "impartial" juries. Typically State constitutions have language similar to the Federal Constitution.


By that definition literally everything at a trial could meet the conatitrionql test. Enough cups for water for the jury, the air-conditioning was too cold, and on and on.
 






🇺🇸Travis🇺🇸
@Travis_4_Trump

JUST IN: Judge Juan Merchan just got exposed for his corruption by the jury, and now we know why he broke tradition and didn’t give written instruction to the jury. Yesterday, the jury asked for a repeat of specific instruction, and Merchan decided to just send them home.

Today, we now know what it was they wanted repeated. It was a metaphor from Judge Merchan in which he said “ suppose you wake up in the morning and it’s not raining, but the streets are wet and people are wearing raincoats and holding umbrellas. Under those circumstances you may conclude that it rained during the night.”

The Judge is essentially telling the jury that even though you don’t see proof of a crime, it’s reasonable to assume one occurred. This is next level corruption! Throw this Judge, his daughter, and the entire prosecution in jail!



LOL, that instruction or something similar to it is in ALL jury instructions to explain the difference between direct and indirect evidence.

Look, if your going to complain about process, that's fine. But quote MUUUUCCHHH better sources please because this idiot has no idea what he talking about.
 
LOL, that instruction or something similar to it is in ALL jury instructions to explain the difference between direct and indirect evidence.

Look, if your going to complain about process, that's fine. But quote MUUUUCCHHH better sources please because this idiot has no idea what he talking about.
Do you have a bottle of bubbly on ice for the big celebration?
 
LOL, that instruction or something similar to it is in ALL jury instructions to explain the difference between direct and indirect evidence.

Look, if your going to complain about process, that's fine. But quote MUUUUCCHHH better sources please because this idiot has no idea what he talking about.
How dare you besmirch the fine reputation of Trav_4_Trump
 
How do you get that?

I'm saying that I don't think the question of whether to send back a copy of the instructions implicates the Sixth Amendment

Proper Jury Instructions definitely have an impact on the jury interpretation of the law. Sad you can't see that (personally I think you do, you just want Trump to be guilty). I think in Trump's case, his attorneys have the power to overcome it but if this is the case across the board in New York, it is definitely a problem.

Trump's actions, Cohen's actions, the AG's actions, and the Judge's actions really make me concerned about New York Judicial System as all parties here are doing what they can to skirt the line rather than follow the proper line. Then again that is par for the course sometimes in our nation today. This is why people don't trust the legal system.

Again, as I explained, these kind of actions are what created the MAGA backlash in the first place. I don't think Trump is a good thing for our nation but is definitely a reflection of how the government has let down the citizens of the United States across the board.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LibertyVol
LOL, that instruction or something similar to it is in ALL jury instructions to explain the difference between direct and indirect evidence.

Look, if your going to complain about process, that's fine. But quote MUUUUCCHHH better sources please because this idiot has no idea what he talking about.

Sad that you're supposed to uphold the constitution yet you cheer the lynching attempt
 
Proper Jury Instructions definitely have an impact on the jury interpretation of the law. Sad you can't see that (personally I think you do, you just want Trump to be guilty). I think in Trump's case, his attorneys have the power to overcome it but if this is the case across the board in New York, it is definitely a problem.

Trump's actions, Cohen's actions, the AG's actions, and the Judge's actions really make me concerned about New York Judicial System as all parties here are doing what they can to skirt the line rather than follow the proper line. Then again that is par for the course sometimes in our nation today. This is why people don't trust the legal system.

Again, as I explained, these kind of actions are what created the MAGA backlash in the first place. I don't think Trump is a good thing for our nation but is definitely a reflection of how the government has let down the citizens of the United States across the board.

Yet Biden is good for our nation? Trump is bad cause he tweets?
 
Sad that you're supposed to uphold the constitution yet you cheer the lynching attempt

This is why Partisanship is a problem in this nation and George Washington was clearly against it.

If Biden was on trial right now in the same spot, the MAGA people would be cheering for conviction as well.

People don't focus on the system and doing what is right. While there is some evidence against Trump in this case, it needs to be done fairly. The judge should have let in the expert witness and should have given the jury instruction. It was the RIGHT thing to do.
 
LOL, that instruction or something similar to it is in ALL jury instructions to explain the difference between direct and indirect evidence.

Look, if your going to complain about process, that's fine. But quote MUUUUCCHHH better sources please because this idiot has no idea what he talking about.
Did he say it was to show the difference? What was the context?
 
60% chance found guilty
39.9999% hung
.0001% acquitted
Wow. You have hung way higher than I do. Guess I swing low. Sorry, that horribly immature joke aside, I’d go 80/19.999%/what’s left. We’re leaning the same way, I’m just leaning harder. I heard a guy talking this morning who seemed fairly objective and he said it’s unusual to get a hung jury in a long case. It made sense when he explained his experience and reasoning. Otherwise, I’d have been a little closer to you on the breakdown.
 

VN Store



Back
Top