The (many) indictments of Donald Trump

[hUTch2002]

Thing is that when the “loser” is the government prosecution, they would pay out using taxpayer money, so we would lose either way. Nope, got to be some detriment to the professional standing or career of the responsible party

We can have both if you want, yours just has to be behind mine. I’ll allow for yours as well though.

 

[Vol737]

Well it wouldn’t prevent him outright from being elected.

But Hill is right that sentencing won’t be until well after the election.

So, wanted to come back to this since RT85’s response. It’s interesting that he said the judge could possibly sentence him to jail time, but a stay would be issued until the appeal is heard. So, it’s possible a sentence could be hanging around out there, which would make things really interesting between now and November.

 

[AirVol]

 

[Gandalf]

Thanks. Wrt the appeal that will be filed, do you think the appellate court will grant it or is it possible they could not grant an appeal based on review? What would, in this case, compel the appeals court to deny?

appelate courts in NY are fairly political so I suspect no fair shake there but Court of Appeals (NY's highest court) will be a bit different. They are appointed for 14 years and an appeal can be taken from the court of first instance to the Court of Appeals, bypassing the Appellate Division. They are generally a more conservative group (not politically, necessarily but just less likely to do something extreme since they value their rep a bit more).

Trump can make an expedited appeal to the Court of Appeals and they may take it but it is unusual. Everything in NY courts is slow slow slow. But this could be different. If they are particularly partisan, they may let it drag. Or, if they think Merchan went too far, and made NY courts a laughingstock, they may take it up more quickly. Either way, they know that USSC will be taking it up right after them if they ditch it so they will be careful with the whole country looking at them. They care a lot more about their rep and unlike Merchan, are not getting paid (via his daughter) to rule. They also have nowhere to go in their career but down so they will likely be very careful about getting stuck with this tar baby.

 

[Ritzwatch]

Exactly. The left might be spiking the ball prematurely. Just like the right needs to accept the guilty verdict, if it’s overturned on appeal the left needs to accept that. Like it or not, this is our process and it should be accepted.

It is a legal system, not a justice system. There are some injustices that can never, ever be remedied. That is why is system is always subject to reform. Blindly calling for “respect” or acceptance for conclusions reached by a flawed system suffocates the identification of, and remedies to, that flawed system. Whether one agrees or disagrees with the process in this case, the system should *never* be shielded from scrutiny.

 

[hUTch2002]

Evidence of what?

Exactly...nothing. But do you let your MAGA imagination run wild.

If Trump had done that exact same thing you’d be posting exactly what Jxn did with some Earls and rubes thrown in there.

 

[OrangeTsar]

appelate courts in NY are fairly political so I suspect no fair shake there but Court of Appeals (NY's highest court) will be a bit different. They are appointed for 14 years and an appeal can be taken from the court of first instance to the Court of Appeals, bypassing the Appellate Division. They are generally a more conservative group (not politically, necessarily but just less likely to do something extreme since they value their rep a bit more).

Trump can make an expedited appeal to the Court of Appeals and they may take it but it is unusual. Everything in NY courts is slow slow slow. But this could be different. If they are particularly partisan, they may let it drag. Or, if they think Merchan went too far, and made NY courts a laughingstock, they may take it up more quickly. Either way, they know that USSC will be taking it up right after them if they ditch it so they will be careful with the whole country looking at them. They care a lot more about their rep and unlike Merchan, are not getting paid (via his daughter) to rule. They also have nowhere to go in their career but down so they will likely be very careful about getting stuck with this tar baby.

I think courts at all level will be loathe to get involved in what is basically a no win political argument. No matter which way they rule, almost half of the country will hate them and accuse them of being political. Justices HATE being put in that position.
So don’t look for anyone to take this up on an expedited basis (at least that is my humble opinion)

 

[hUTch2002]

Ok. I see you're on top of it. Thanks

You get a like as I chuckled.

 

[rekinhavoc]

 

[lawgator1]

Council.


'nuff said.

 

[hUTch2002]

View attachment 645250

Well done!

 

[rekinhavoc]

Council.


'nuff said.

You're ok with a senile guy starting WWIII,

'nuff said.

 

[hUTch2002]

It is a legal system, not a justice system. There are some injustices that can never, ever be remedied. That is why is system is always subject to reform. Blindly calling for “respect” or acceptance for conclusions reached by a flawed system suffocates the identification of, and remedies to, that flawed system. Whether one agrees or disagrees with the process in this case, the system should *never* be shielded from scrutiny.

I never said anything about being above scrutiny but it’s what we have at the moment so ultimately it has to be accepted. People flip flopping based on who is what situation is rampant. Many on the right would be applauding if this same thing happened to Hillary while many only the left would be livid if Trump got a hung jury due to that one juror that said they looked at Truth Social. If the process is to be criticized it should be done so objectively but that’s not what we see from most.

 

[Carl Pickens]

The double standard

 

[lawgator1]

Remember chants of "Lock her up" and callse for HRC to be prosecuted, as she ran for President ?

But hey, THIS election interference is unprecedented....

 

[Sudden Impact]

I’ve googled the chit out of it and I can’t find any procedures a president must follow to declassify information. I know we have an expert (I think he was a double naught spy or something) on the subject lurking around here that claims the president must get approval from a committee or something but refuses to post anything backing it up.

@hog88 I did a quick search, found this for Public knowledge. It may not answer your questions directly but know that there are procedures no matter who declassifies. Plus there are regulations and procedures that will not be disclosed to the public because they do not have a need to know.
A declassified document may lay dormant for 25 years. Another Key word is Public Interest?

We have no idea what Trump had in his possession or the Contents. The NJ tape and the media indicated that he had an OPLAN with potential Nuclear Capabilities' of foreign govts. The public may never know and appears that the govt has a clue but I would be willing to bet that they don't know for sure. At present, the only public interest for knowing is the election, but the compromise of classified information outweighs the election. So we will get out of this what we are fed by the govt and the court system.

Here is a government release, notice the date. It has no "fine print" and there is "fine Print" but not printed. This is generic and there are more details to it than this but you can draw a picture.
Key words: "25 years, Public Interest, Compromise, Risks to National Security" + the fine print the American People are not privy to.
For example, the American People have no need to know an OPLAN, but a terrorist or opposing force would pay huge $$$$$ for it. So until we know which we may never know the documents Trump possessed, it is hard to pass judgement.
I sure hope those that failed the chain of custody for those documents were relieved of their duties.

Loading…

crsreports.congress.gov

Bottom Line: Some appear to think that Trump could declassify a document, take it home with him because of the PRA and without a process of declassification. He cannot.

Take it for what it is worth. If the government had done the proper procedures then this would never have happened to begin with. Second, notice the date of document August 2023, these procedures have been around for several years this was a generic release of information to validate the confusion. Notice Public Interest.

30 Secs to find check your search engine.

 

[Sudden Impact]

There could be any number of reasons. But what does that have to do with the presidential power to declassify material?

I see you edited your post. Public interest is not a qualifier or limiter to the powers of the president when it comes to declassifying executive branch material.

Donald is that you? Now you are using executive branch material. This is a joke. First it was nuclear he couldn't disqualify, now it is the classification center can't touch executive branch material. Your posts fit your narrative regarding declassification which has been and is totally wrong. Read above White paper.

 

[Ritzwatch]

I never said anything about being above scrutiny but it’s what we have at the moment so ultimately it has to be accepted. People flip flopping based on who is what situation is rampant. Many on the right would be applauding if this same thing happened to Hillary while many only the left would be livid if Trump got a hung jury due to that one juror that said they looked at Truth Social. If the process is to be criticized it should be done so objectively but that’s not what we see from most.

Not trying to pick on you, my man. I know the PF is kind of a "fellowship of the kindred a-holes to each other," which is why I rarely post here, but I thought your post neutral and agreeable enough for me to respond to with my thoughts.

I guess it is at some level, semantics. I don't think I would use your word, "accepted," because I take that to mean passive acquiescence even in the face of injustice. I do think "followed" sums up my feelings, because we can follow a bad law or bad outcome while still not "accepting" it and while we work to change the mechanisms that caused what we believe to be an unjust outcome.

I think the common ground we share here is agreement that there has to be a system of rules, and there has to be a broad societal consensus that we will abide by those rules, even if the result is (or is simply perceived to be) unfair, unjust or unequitable, otherwise there will be anarchy. These rules have to be followed by all, and where there are flaws in the rules, we should all acknowledge them and work to remediate those flaws without regard for who is the "winner" and who is the "loser." Unfortunately, because of a lust for power, it is easier for politicians to weaponize whatever rules lead to outcomes they want than it is to actually work for the common good of all. In a nation split 52-48 on virtually every issue, that kind of tribalism, real or perceived, will ultimately lead to vengeance, disunity, and destruction.

Cheers,

RW

 

[midnight orange]

Dershowitz: It's a Day After the Ruling and I Still Don't Know What the Crime Is - Merchan Took This a Step Further than Stalin - Supreme Court Should See This Case and Reverse This Case | The Gateway Pundit | by Jim Hoft

Harvard law professor and author Alan Dershowitz weighed in on the Trump convictions by a corrupt court, a biased jury, and and criminal judge on Thursday.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

Dershowitz: It’s a Day After the Ruling and I Still Don’t Know What the Crime Is – Merchan Took This a Step Further than Stalin – Supreme Court Should See This Case and Reverse This Case​

No one has taken anything further than Stalin in this country. Hyperbole.

 

[W.TN.Orange Blood]

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Yeah but the elections are rigged so there's no way he will win, right?

You better hope he does, or the cost to run your business will be going nothing but up.

But I'm the clown.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

And they are all a complete waste of time and money.

Let's get Trump elected and see where the chips fall. Forget all that other noise.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

He will be sentenced before the appeals. If he’s sentenced to incarceration, I would think they would let him remain on bond until the appeal is heard (called a “stay” of the sentence). The appeal will go on until after the election for sure.

I don’t think he should get jail time but if you told me you wanted to go to prison as a first time offender for a white collar crime I would advise you to act like Donald Trump.

Oh no. He's a flight risk. He has his own airplane. Gotta put him in the can.

 

[Gandalf]

Remember chants of "Lock her up" and callse for HRC to be prosecuted, as she ran for President ?

But hey, THIS election interference is unprecedented....

Exactly - because while Trump's call for lock her up made good red meat rhetoric, he didnt actually have his DOJ go after her (and there is so so much there to look into).

Meanwhile, Dems dont merely wail about it, they have done their best to actually lock Trump up to keep him from running for President -why? because they are losing and are rightly afraid that they have no chance of winning unless they can take Trump out by other means than the ballot box. They are not close enough to the margin to outcheat the polls atm - or so they think.

The election interference here is unpresented indeed. and thats not even counting what the FBI did with entrapment of Trumps national security advisor.

 

[Ritzwatch]

He will be sentenced before the appeals. If he’s sentenced to incarceration, I would think they would let him remain on bond until the appeal is heard (called a “stay” of the sentence). The appeal will go on until after the election for sure.

I don’t think he should get jail time but if you told me you wanted to go to prison as a first time offender for a white collar crime I would advise you to act like Donald Trump.

If he is sentenced to an active sentence, I suspect there is a good chance he would get an appeal bond, one condition of which is that he be placed on house arrest pending his appeal. Makes him miss the convention, keeps him off the campaign trail. Seems to me like that would be a reasonable outcome to expect from this judge.