The (many) indictments of Donald Trump

#17,476
#17,476
RockyTop85 said:
Haven’t paid attention to this trial since Daniels’ first or second day of testimony. This thread turning into a “totally going to be an acquittal” echo chamber has me mildly interested to see the result.
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Not sure if it will be an acquittal just because of jury composition. But if it is a conviction, I expect one of the fastest overturns on appeal ever.
 
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#17,478
#17,478
whodeycin85 said:
Have they linked Trump directly to the falsified documents directly yet??
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Yes, Trump's lawyers pretty much caved on that argument yesterday. They got Cohen to agree he was never on retainer.

They are setting up the defense that Cohen was a T.O. employee and did what was needed to protect the business, the brand, and DJT. Hence, that's why the 2011 stuff with Stormy blog is important...Cohen testified he did that to protect brand and DJT back then.
 
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#17,479
#17,479
BigOrangeMojo said:
Yes, Trump's lawyers pretty much caved on that argument yesterday. They got Cohen to agree he was never on retainer.

They are setting up the defense that Cohen was a T.O. employee and did what was needed to protect the business, the brand, and DJT. Hence, that's why the 2011 stuff with Stormy blog is important...Cohen testified he did that to protect brand and DJT back then.
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Thanks
 
#17,480
#17,480
The charging document from the communist attorney's case in NY. It shows 34 counts of falsifying business records and 34 phrases in each count of "with intent to defraud and commit another crime". For the Constitution's sake, hopefully what that crime is will be revealed soon. Stalin would be proud of the efforts of these prosecutor and further proof you can indeed indict a ham sandwich.

 
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#17,481
#17,481
OrangeTsar said:
Not sure if it will be an acquittal just because of jury composition. But if it is a conviction, I expect one of the fastest overturns on appeal ever.
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Quick review of relevant case law makes that seem super unlikely. New York courts have upheld convictions under 175.10 when the person was acquitted of the underlying charge, reasoning that a jury could have found that they intended some other crime and that there’s no actus reus requirement. Had a long post written up but the forum is rejecting it.
 
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#17,482
#17,482
FWIW, I think people may be overestimating what they have to prove to get the conviction. Trying without the links:

From the jury instructions:

“Intent to defraud that included an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof.”
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Jury Instructions

This guy got charged with and acquitted of the enhancing crime and the appeals court said that was fine:

“Here, the jury's not guilty verdict on the counts of insurance fraud did not necessarily negate an essential element of the falsifying business records in the first degree counts. "A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree when he commits the crime of falsifying business records in the second degree, and when his intent to defraud includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof" (Penal Law § 175.10). Although the jury acquitted defendant of insurance fraud, which is the crime the People alleged that defendant intended to commit or conceal by falsifying business records, the jury could "convict defendant of falsifying business records if the jury concluded that defendant had [intended] to commit or conceal another crime, even if he was not convicted of the other crime…”
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Case #1
After reviewing several similar cases, the Court of Appeals says this:

“Read as a whole, it is clear that falsifying business records in the second degree is elevated to a first-degree offense on the basis of an enhanced intent requirement ... not any additional actus reus element”
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Case #2

I have no opinion on what the outcome will be or whether it’s justified. I haven’t paid much attention to the proof. I’m solely interested in how well the certainty that the case has fallen apart meshes with reality, or if it’s another 2020 election/Chauvin trial situation.

CC: @BigOrangeMojo and @OrangeTsar
 
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#17,484
#17,484
RockyTop85 said:
FWIW, I think people may be overestimating what they have to prove to get the conviction. Trying without the links:

From the jury instructions:


Jury Instructions

This guy got charged with and acquitted of the enhancing crime and the appeals court said that was fine:


Case #1
After reviewing several similar cases, the Court of Appeals says this:


Case #2

I have no opinion on what the outcome will be or whether it’s justified. I haven’t paid much attention to the proof. I’m solely interested in how well the certainty that the case has fallen apart meshes with reality, or if it’s another 2020 election/Chauvin trial situation.

CC: @BigOrangeMojo and @OrangeTsar
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I believe most folks here believe he will be convicted. If we have learned anything since 2016 it would have to be not to believe anything that the talking heads or politicians say is remotely close to accurate.
 
#17,485
#17,485
Sandman 423 said:
I believe most folks here believe he will be convicted. If we have learned anything since 2016 it would have to be not to believe anything that the talking heads or politicians say is remotely close to accurate.
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I agree there’s a contingent of people here who have learned that. Some of them don’t believe it’s a good case, fwiw.

The last 24 hours or so, I’ve noticed that the “election was stolen”/“stayed behind the velvet ropes” crowd and maybe a few degrees more reasonable than that are talking like it is a foregone conclusion that the case has unraveled.

I’m just becoming more interested in the result and the reaction to it, based on that certainty.
 
#17,487
#17,487
I think there is more certainty that since the jurors are sequestered that at least one of them went back to the hotel and pleasured themselves based on the report that Daniels testimony graphic, over the top and irrelevant unless you wanted to hear erotic sex tales.
 
#17,488
#17,488
This largely made up trial was always hanging on Cohen's ability to be a believable witness. Bragg knew from the beginning that this would happen on the stand, thats why he never bothered to bring this case in the first place until he got shamed into it by one of his progressive deputies. But its more than that, I think. Since he had to know it was a loser, the only real reason he would have brought this trial was to slow Trump's campaign down. To make him focus time, attention and money away from the campaign trail. For anyone else, it probably would have worked.

This is political corruption and the perversion of law, plain and simple.
 
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#17,490
#17,490
The 'trial' has served it's purpose. It has kept Donald Trump off the campaign trail so he couldn't properly campaign. But it has also kept Donald Trump off the campaign trail so he couldn't properly campaign which has hurt the Democrats. LOL

They only way they win in November is to cheat again.
 
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#17,492
#17,492
you just never know what a jury will do. I have seen more than one panelist mention that high profile cases seldom result in a hung jury. Seems there may be jury peer pressure involved. Not good for Trump obviously.
 
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#17,493
#17,493
MJTruthUltra
@MJTruthUltra


The Trump “Hush Money” Hoax Trial just Got Busted Wide Open by Lara Loomer

• Democrat Dan Goldman, according to the FEC, has been sending tons of cash to “Authentic Campaign”

• “Authentic Campaign” has a Richmond, VA address that just so happens to be Loren Merchan, Judge Merchan’s daughter
—— the same judge on Donald Trumps “Hush Money” trial.

As if that wasn’t shady enough…

• Loren Merchan is the President of “Authentic Campaigns”
—— Dan Goldman sent these payments to “Authentic Campaign” deliberately leaving out the , to hide the fact he’s literally funding the daughter of the Judge who’s overlooking Trumps trial.

It sounds like congressional Dems are inadvertently funding the trial against Donald Trump.

To add to this, JUST YESTERDAY, this is exactly what MTG was talking about and why AOC & Crockett had their outburst.

They are trying to divert attention away from the funding of this and cover this **** up

=========================

✨🤫 Not Sherry 🤫✨
@MamieWhiteesq
Here’s something interesting:

Trump indictment was unsealed 04/04/2023. After making relatively small monthly payments Oct thru Dec 2022 and a payment in Feb, Goldman makes a $39,750 payment on 04/12/2023 and an additional 5 payments in 04//2023 for a total of $53,250. Pretty sketch
 
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#17,495
#17,495
Orangeburst said:
you just never know what a jury will do. I have seen more than one panelist mention that high profile cases seldom result in a hung jury. Seems there may be jury peer pressure involved. Not good for Trump obviously.
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The jurors are going to have a tough time returning to their New York social circles having to explain how they acquitted Trump.
 
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#17,496
#17,496
whodeycin85 said:
Who oversees the courts and AGs??? And why are they not investigating things like this that come up??
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Because everyone at that level is tied to someone politically. This is NY so of course there are Dem ties. It would be hard to find a judge without them in NY.
 
#17,497
#17,497
hUTch2002 said:
Because everyone at that level is tied to someone politically. This is NY so of course there are Dem ties. It would be hard to find a judge without them in NY.
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I get that...it's a major problem. And this isn't just a Trump thing as we have seen it utilized against normal citizens... overcharging, self defense cases convicted by a blue jury only to overturned later or pardoned..it's crazy that out justice system is such a disgrace.
 
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