The murder of Ahmaud Arbery

[825VOL]

Intent is formed in an instant. What they started off intending to do has little to do with the result. The defense put that idiot on the stand because they are trying for sympathy. They don't get the benefit of self defense when they chased this guy down and when they had exhausted him and left him feeling cornered he charged. Then the guy killed him.

Nice of you to fill in the blanks with your own biased narrative. Good job as usual

 

[ClearwaterVol]

Nice of you to fill in the blanks with your own biased narrative. Good job as usual

I was under the impression this was a message board and I was permitted to give my opinion. And my opinion, in this instance, has the benefit of years of litigation practice behind it.

 

[825VOL]

I was under the impression this was a message board and I was permitted to give my opinion. And my opinion, in this instance, has the benefit of years of litigation practice behind it.

Your years of practice has nothing to do with your BS narrative. Nice try counselor

 

[ClearwaterVol]

Your years of practice has nothing to do with your BS narrative. Nice try counselor

So, you don't think my opinion of trial strategy is based upon my experience? Or is it that my interpretation of the facts and the related application of the law is not colored by my training and experience?

Explain how my narrative is bs? I was just told a minute ago nobody was defending these knuckleheads. Was that incorrect?

 

[Weezer]

They deserve to rot in prison. They armed themselves and chased the young man down. Their premeditated actions led to his death.

 

[825VOL]

Intent is formed in an instant. What they started off intending to do has little to do with the result. The defense put that idiot on the stand because they are trying for sympathy. They don't get the benefit of self defense when they chased this guy down and when they had exhausted him and left him feeling cornered he charged. Then the guy killed him.

Here is your quote. You state they chased him down until they exhausted him- BS this is just your opinion. He had plenty of energy to go fight for the gun. Left him feeling cornered- how do you know how he felt? He ran out into the road. He could have stayed in the woods or continued to run away from them not toward them. Then the guy killed him- no one made him go fight for control of the gun but himself. You added a lot to the facts to
Fit your own narrative.
Don’t take me as defending them, just calling you on the BS you added to the story based on your feelings and perceptions, not the facts of the case.

 

[RockyTop85]

Meh, havent watched this trial but from the video and little I have seen regarding the deceased - This is not murder. Aubrey was not running away in the video, he was running toward the truck and then even ran toward and grabbed the gun.

Also, almost equally clear to me. The guy who shot him has some legal culpability in Aubrey's death. Lets say I accept Aubrey was casing the place, that at the last minute with the gun in his direction, he charged the shooter - still, shooter has some significant wrong in his actions. They had no business trying to stop him for a citizens arrest. Follow and observe and direct the police (whom they called) to deal with the situation.

My gut tells me it should be something like negligent homicide and the guy serve 5-7 years. Dont think he is guilty of murder but he is guilty of something (stupidity for sure). Who knows how it will turn out though and could be evidence that I am not aware of.

I think there are laws you’re not aware of.

Travis McMichael:

Felony murder.

§ 16-5-1 - Murder; felony murder

(c) A person also commits the offense of murder when, in the commission of a felony, he causes the death of another human being irrespective of malice.

The state alleges that Travis shot and killed Arbury during the commission of a felony aggravated assault and false imprisonment, also a felony.

(a) A person commits the offense of aggravated assault when he or she assaults:
(2) With a deadly weapon or with any object, device, or instrument which, when used offensively against a person, is likely to or actually does result in serious bodily injury; or

OGCA 16-5-20 defines “assault” to include: an act which places another in reasonable apprehension of immediately receiving a violent injury. Chasing them with a truck and pointing guns at them would qualify.

16-5-41. False imprisonment
(a) A person commits the offense of false imprisonment when, in violation of the personal liberty of another, he arrests, confines, or detains such person without legal authority.

So the elements of agg assault are right there in the video. Travis was pointing a firearm at Arbury. False imprisonments seems pretty easy, too.

Unless the defense produces a live Ahmaud Arbury, the coroner can make a prima facia case for felony murder against Travis.

Gregory and likely William Bryan:

GA Code § 16-2-20 (2017)

• (a) Every person concerned in the commission of a crime is a party thereto and may be charged with and convicted of commission of the crime.
• (b) A person is concerned in the commission of a crime only if he:
• • (1) Directly commits the crime;
  • (2) Intentionally causes some other person to commit the crime under such circumstances that the other person is not guilty of any crime either in fact or because of legal incapacity;
  • (3) Intentionally aids or abets in the commission of the crime; or
  • 4) Intentionally advises, encourages, hires, counsels, or procures another to commit the crime.

Pair that with the felony murder statute and intentionally aiding and abetting the aggravated assault or the false imprisonment becomes criminal responsibility for the murder.

The video and the McMichaels’ statements are enough to ring them up for life sentences.

In order to find them not guilty, a jury would have to either disregard that evidence or find that they were not committing a felony.

Travis’s defense is apparently that it was not an aggravated assault, but a citizen’s arrest.

§ 17-4-60. Grounds for arrest

A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.

There has already been trial testimony to indicate that Gregory told police he didn’t know if Arbury had committed any crime. I’m pretty sure Gregory called Travis out of the house, IIRC, so no offense occurred in Travis’s presence and even in hindsight there.

Self defense is also a nonstarter:

(b) A person is not justified in using force under the circumstances specified in subsection (a) of this Code section if he:

(1) Initially provokes the use of force against himself with the intent to use such force as an excuse to inflict bodily harm upon the assailant;

(2) Is attempting to commit, committing, or fleeing after the commission or attempted commission of a felony; or

(3) Was the aggressor or was engaged in a combat by agreement unless he withdraws from the encounter and effectively communicates to such other person his intent to do so and the other, notwithstanding, continues or threatens to continue the use of unlawful force.

Absolutely no question these three guys were the aggressors. Pretty clear they were engaged in felonies.

Absent a jury nullification verdict, these guys are toast. I’ll be shocked if the McMichaels aren’t convicted of felony murder and sentenced to life. Maybe the jury gets confused about Bryan. Sometimes they don’t like felony murder and criminal responsibility statutes, but pretty sure there were statements to the police the inculpated him more than the video showed.

You may disagree with the law, but legally that’s the appropriate outcome and it should be a slam dunk.

 

[ClearwaterVol]

Here is your quote. You state they chased him down until they exhausted him- BS this is just your opinion. He had plenty of energy to go fight for the gun. Left him feeling cornered- how do you know how he felt? He ran out into the road. He could have stayed in the woods or continued to run away from them not toward them. Then the guy killed him- no one made him go fight for control of the gun but himself. You added a lot to the facts to
Fit your own narrative.
Don’t take me as defending them, just calling you on the BS you added to the story based on your feelings and perceptions, not the facts of the case.

He was being chased by armed men for a good bit. If you watch that video... Arbery has a truck in pursuit and one in front of him with a man with a rifle in the bed of that truck. Pretty easy to feel cornered when one is caught between multiple pursuers. There is a point in which a decision must be made while you have any energy and that is to continue fleeing which hasn't worked or to fight back. These men had no right to hunt this guy down and now they are trying to play the victim card in court. My opinion is this strategy backfires badly. The defendant that pulled the trigger will have a hard time now claiming remorse at sentencing when he just spent hours talking about how he thought he was chasing a bad guy and how he had been a victim of crime and how Arbery would still be alive if he hadn't come after the gun.

And FWIW, all opinions are biased. Every single one. You saying that I am trying to fit my own narrative. No, I have experiences both related to the law and unrelated and those help form my opinion. My perception is based upon the facts of the case. You seem to be attacking my interpretation of the facts a lot for someone that is not defending these guys.

 

[BreatheUT]

So, it would be justice if a jury convicted him of murder and the judge sentenced them to 100 hours of community service?

You know that wouldn't happen.

 

[ClearwaterVol]

You know that wouldn't happen.

What I am saying is that a guilty verdict doesn't equal justice.

 

[Gandalf]

I think there are laws you’re not aware of.

Travis McMichael:

Felony murder.


The state alleges that Travis shot and killed Arbury during the commission of a felony aggravated assault and false imprisonment, also a felony.


OGCA 16-5-20 defines “assault” to include: an act which places another in reasonable apprehension of immediately receiving a violent injury. Chasing them with a truck and pointing guns at them would qualify.



So the elements of agg assault are right there in the video. Travis was pointing a firearm at Arbury. False imprisonments seems pretty easy, too.

Unless the defense produces a live Ahmaud Arbury, the coroner can make a prima facia case for felony murder against Travis.

Gregory and likely William Bryan:

Pair that with the felony murder statute and intentionally aiding and abetting the aggravated assault or the false imprisonment becomes criminal responsibility for the murder.

The video and the McMichaels’ statements are enough to ring them up for life sentences.

In order to find them not guilty, a jury would have to either disregard that evidence or find that they were not committing a felony.

Travis’s defense is apparently that it was not an aggravated assault, but a citizen’s arrest.



There has already been trial testimony to indicate that Gregory told police he didn’t know if Arbury had committed any crime. I’m pretty sure Gregory called Travis out of the house, IIRC, so no offense occurred in Travis’s presence and even in hindsight there.

Self defense is also a nonstarter:



Absolutely no question these three guys were the aggressors. Pretty clear they were engaged in felonies.

Absent a jury nullification verdict, these guys are toast. I’ll be shocked if the McMichaels aren’t convicted of felony murder and sentenced to life. Maybe the jury gets confused about Bryan. Sometimes they don’t like felony murder and criminal responsibility statutes, but pretty sure there were statements to the police the inculpated him more than the video showed.

You may disagree with the law, but legally that’s the appropriate outcome and it should be a slam dunk.

I gave you a like because I appreciate the additional information you brought to my attention, not necessarily because I agree with your assessment of what the evidence demonstrates or what should derive from that. I don't have strong feelings on this one particularly and of course the specifics of the law are paramount but again my sense is he did wrong and should be punished - but not for murder. Will the jury see it similarly? Dont know. Expect that jury instructions will be a significant factor here.

 

[Sandman 423]

Meh, havent watched this trial but from the video and little I have seen regarding the deceased - This is not murder. Aubrey was not running away in the video, he was running toward the truck and then even ran toward and grabbed the gun.

Also, almost equally clear to me. The guy who shot him has some legal culpability in Aubrey's death. Lets say I accept Aubrey was casing the place, that at the last minute with the gun in his direction, he charged the shooter - still, shooter has some significant wrong in his actions. They had no business trying to stop him for a citizens arrest. Follow and observe and direct the police (whom they called) to deal with the situation.

My gut tells me it should be something like negligent homicide and the guy serve 5-7 years. Dont think he is guilty of murder but he is guilty of something (stupidity for sure). Who knows how it will turn out though and could be evidence that I am not aware of.

Surely you are joking. Those guys piled into a truck and chased him down. They might be guilty of being idiots, but they are murders too.

 

[clarksvol00]

Here is your quote. You state they chased him down until they exhausted him- BS this is just your opinion. He had plenty of energy to go fight for the gun. Left him feeling cornered- how do you know how he felt? He ran out into the road. He could have stayed in the woods or continued to run away from them not toward them. Then the guy killed him- no one made him go fight for control of the gun but himself. You added a lot to the facts to
Fit your own narrative.
Don’t take me as defending them, just calling you on the BS you added to the story based on your feelings and perceptions, not the facts of the case.

I dont know anything about GA's stand your ground laws, but from what I have seen it looks like these guys were trying to pin him in and he had no duty to retreat or hide under typical stand your ground laws. (And in this case he may not have had the ability).

 

[Delmar]

What I am saying is that a guilty verdict doesn't equal justice.

That’s for sure. Saw a story tonight on the news of some rich white kid (I think in CA) convicted of 4 sexual assaults. Judge sentenced him to 8 years probation. No jail time at all.

 

[clarksvol00]

I posted the self defense statute in the Arbury thread.

Definitely don't think these guys are entitled to a self-defense argument under that statute. I don't know about GA, but if Arbery had prevailed and turned the gun on the shooter, I think he'd have a good defense under a typical stand your ground law as i understand them. I'm no scholar but I bet there's an interesting legal argument to be had over the issue of self-defense versus stand your ground.

 

[Carl Pickens]

Surely you are joking. Those guys piled into a truck and chased him down. They might be guilty of being idiots, but they are murders too.

I’m not convinced they intended to kill him. I’m not sure there was premeditation, but they created a very volatile situation that rapidly escalated. They’re man slaughterers for sure

 

[Weezer]

I’m not convinced they intended to kill him. I’m not sure there was premeditation, but they created a very volatile situation that rapidly escalated. They’re man slaughterers for sure

They armed themselves with the intent to hunt him down. That part, at least, was premeditated. The fact it led to murder leads me to believe they deserve to go to jail for a long time. They took the law into their own hands rather than call the police, and a man died because of their actions. I think it goes beyond manslaughter.

 

[clarksvol00]

I’m not convinced they intended to kill him. I’m not sure there was premeditation, but they created a very volatile situation that rapidly escalated. They’re man slaughterers for sure

Thats where the felony murder charge rocky posted comes into play. They allegedly killed him while committing false imprisonment or something like that.

 

[ClearwaterVol]

They armed themselves with the intent to hunt him down. That part, at least, was premeditated. The fact it led to murder leads me to believe they deserve to go to jail for a long time. They took the law into their own hands rather than call the police, and a man died because of their actions. I think it goes beyond manslaughter.

premeditation does not require that they "planned" to kill him. The intent necessary can be formed very quickly. Travis got out of the truck raised his weapon in Arbery's direction and then intended to shoot him as evidenced by him actually pulling the trigger on three separate occasions. All of which will be used to show his intent.

 

[GreyWolf1129]

@RockyTop85 did some good research on the Official Code of Georgia Annotated (OCGA) on here. Good work.

Disclaimer: I know one of the defendants professionally. In all the years I knew him, I never saw one hint that he was a racist. JMO.

That being said, I don't see how this is anything other than Voluntary Manslaughter at the best, and Felony Murder at the worst. It all depends on how you choose to interpret the pursuit, cornering, confrontation, and finally use of deadly force. But it never was a legitimate citizen's arrest, because the elements of Burglary were never satisfied. Under the existing law at the time (since changed because of this case), a citizen's arrest could only be made for a Felony. Burglary is a felony; Criminal Trespass is not. At least one of those three should have known that.

You cannot create a Stand Your Ground defense by chasing someone, and then "standing your ground" when they decide to attack you. The law in Georgia is very clear on that point.

In the simplest terms possible, this is a case of "who brought the fight to who". And it's clear that the 3 defendants brought the fight to Ahmaud Arbery, and when he had ran until he knew running wasn't going to work, he charged his pursuer(s).

In any event, whatever Ahmaud Arbery's intentions or actions were on February 23rd, 2020...they did not rise to the legitimate use of Deadly Force against him.

Fire away.

 

[GreyWolf1129]

My business is located in Brunswick and it's been surprisingly quiet here. I did see a couple of tour busses parked close to the courthouse the other day. Hopefully they won't be shipping in any outside protestors. I don't mind local people peacefully protesting but if they start shipping in thugs to burn and destroy things here in SE GA, things aren't going to end very well, I can promise that.
I don't really have a strong opinion one way or the other as I haven't really kept up with it that much. It definitely does not seem like Arbery was up to any good. With that being said, there was absolutely no reason for him to be shot the way he was. I hope and pray the proper amount of justice will be served. I'm glad I'm not part of the jury.

Just out of curiosity, what business? I'm just south of you, and we have made it a point to "stay local" with our money. So if it's anything that we might need now or in the future, I'd love to spend it on a fellow Vol fan.

If you're not comfortable posting here, ask Freak for my email.

@Freak . If he asks, give it to him.

 

[Electric Orange]

Imagine if these fools get off too...

 

[PEPPERJAX]

Imagine if these fools get off too...

Doubtful

 

[GreyWolf1129]

There won't be riots here, in any event. Protests? Possibly (depending on the verdict), but I can tell you with absolute certainty that if/when the first window is broken in Brunswick, you are going to see the most overwhelming presence of authority since 73 Easting.

Brunswick will not be Portland, by any stretch of the imagination. So let the Jury do its' job, and let justice be served.

 

[VolinWayne]

Just out of curiosity, what business? I'm just south of you, and we have made it a point to "stay local" with our money. So if it's anything that we might need now or in the future, I'd love to spend it on a fellow Vol fan.

If you're not comfortable posting here, ask Freak for my email.

@Freak . If he asks, give it to him.

I love the whole "stay local" push. I'm willing (as long as I can afford it) to pay double the cost to help small local business thrive and do well. I own Yoder Brothers Construction, LLC. We specialize in building high end residential homes on St. Simons and Sea Island. I actually live in Jesup but our office is located in Brunswick.