The murder of Ahmaud Arbery

#702
#702
Rickyvol77 said:
I think its similar that both cases involve people trying to police their neighborhoods, not using the best judgment and calling 911 while trying to identify who the suspects were. Both tried to talk to said subjects and yes pursued them, and in both cases, the suspects both doubled back and physically assaulted the people and attempted to harm them seriously (one by bashing his head on the concrete, one by punching and stealing his gun) and got shot
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But Arbery made attempts to get away, and his assailants prevented him from doing do. Zimmerman did not prevent Martin from fleeing. Martin was gone and chose to double back. Arbery chose to run away, and his assailants drove around the block and cut him off a second time.
 
#703
#703
Rickyvol77 said:
I think its similar that both cases involve people trying to police their neighborhoods, not using the best judgment and calling 911 while trying to identify who the suspects were. Both tried to talk to said subjects and yes pursued them, and in both cases, the suspects both doubled back and physically assaulted the people and attempted to harm them seriously (one by bashing his head on the concrete, one by punching and stealing his gun) and got shot
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The aftermath of the Martin case would make this a much easier case to convict on... Most people are aware that Zimmerman is an attention seeking loon and would vote to convict.
 
#706
#706
The only thing I've read was that the 2 men said he was peeking in an unfinished house's window. There are several reasons I can think of that he would be doing that aren't criminal.

Innocent until proven guilty right?
 
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#708
#708
ClearwaterVol said:
What is his criminal history? And did these yahoos have the videos of break-ins and thus something more definitive than black male, young, medium height and build?
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Apparently in the 911 call I believe the shooter states there is video of this guy, or who they believe to be this guy, looking into homes etc. His criminal history was possession of a firearm at an after school function and running from police. I may be sightly off on those details though.
 
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#711
#711
ClearwaterVol said:
Why? Would that someone have placed you in fear for your life?
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Not necessarily. I'm just speaking in general. He asked who wouldn't fight back if someone was pointing a gun at you. I'm not going to let it get to that point where I'm in fighting back range if I can avoid it. If I'm 10 feet away then I want to make that 20. Then 30. If someone is pointing a gun at me and I close distance to them to be close enough to attack them, and there is no shooting until I try to take the gun from them, I'd question whether that person really wanted to shoot to begin with. Either way both parties are stupid.

But going by the limited video which I think it's iffy at best for either side, I wouldn't think he feared for his life because he wasn't trying to get away from the truck. He was still running along the rode. If he feared for his life he would be going to opposite way or cutting through yards where they can't follow him in a truck. If they're chasing him on foot and armed, that's a much more damning scenario imo.
 
#712
#712
Rickyvol77 said:
They didnt shoot him on suspicion..he was shot for attacking one of them and grabbing his gun
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Again, you've uncovered the perfect crime. You create a situation wherein any reasonable person would feel threatened, you persist in doing so until your victim lashes out, and then you get to kill him.
 
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#713
#713
ClearwaterVol said:
The aftermath of the Martin case would make this a much easier case to convict on... Most people are aware that Zimmerman is an attention seeking loon and would vote to convict.
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interesting to see what the DA takes to grand jury as charges. He hasn't stated which makes me believe he is telling the family it will be murder charges which are definitely untenable and he is probably going to argue for the manslaughter due to media reaction. The only other possible charge even realistic (depending on GA law) is some kind of false imprisonment, but i dont even think that will hold either.
 
#715
#715
Rickyvol77 said:
interesting to see what the DA takes to grand jury as charges. He hasn't stated which makes me believe he is telling the family it will be murder charges which are definitely untenable and he is probably going to argue for the manslaughter due to media reaction. The only other possible charge even realistic (depending on GA law) is some kind of false imprisonment, but i dont even think that will hold either.
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Why do you think murder charges are not possible?
 
#717
#717
bamawriter said:
Again, you've uncovered the perfect crime. You create a situation wherein any reasonable person would feel threatened, you persist in doing so until your victim lashes out, and then you get to kill him.
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Not really, neither Zimmerman or this guy would've shot Arbury or Martin if they hadn't physically attacked them. Simply being somewhere in public (EVEN WITH A FIREARM in POSSESSION) doesn't mean you are automatically threatened and should attack someone.
 
#718
#718
ClearwaterVol said:
Guys with guns chasing him...
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I understand that, which is why I think it's manslaughter. The intent was to stop him, not kill him. But their actions were at least partially/mostly to blame for the guys death. No intent to murder but they initiated the series if events that led up to combat and forced him to shoot or risk losing the gun and being shot.
 
#719
#719
ClearwaterVol said:
Why do you think murder charges are not possible?
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Getting an indictment for murder shouldn't be difficult. I would imagine pleas to manslaughter would be offered, and I would think manslaughter would probably be the charge that gets brought to trial.
 
#720
#720
Rickyvol77 said:
Not really, neither Zimmerman or this guy would've shot Arbury or Martin if they hadn't physically attacked them. Simply being somewhere in public (EVEN WITH A FIREARM in POSSESSION) doesn't mean you are automatically threatened and should attack someone.
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You really need to read the article. They already admitted to the cops they were in "hot pursuit" and were attempting to make a "citizen's arrest."
 
#721
#721
ClearwaterVol said:
Why do you think murder charges are not possible?
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i guarantee you if he tries them for murder, there will be no conviction. Below are the murder elements in GA law:

Murder is the most severe homicide crime. While many states divide murder into degrees, Georgia law only recognizes one degree of murder. Any murder in Georgia carries a minimum sentence of life in prison. More severe penalties include life without parole or death. A person commits murder in Georgia when he or she illegally kills another person under any of several circumstances:
  • The person acted intending to kill another.
  • The person acted with depraved disregard for human life. For example, firing a gun into a house or vehicle the person knows to be occupied.
  • The person kills another while committing a felony such as robbery. In this case, the killing need not be intentional.
None of those fit this case, unless you truly believe this ex-police officer and his son decided to go shoot and kill a guy for no reason, which is not what happened
 
#722
#722
Rickyvol77 said:
Not really, neither Zimmerman or this guy would've shot Arbury or Martin if they hadn't physically attacked them. Simply being somewhere in public (EVEN WITH A FIREARM in POSSESSION) doesn't mean you are automatically threatened and should attack someone.
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Is chasing after a cop while brandishing a gun a threat to the officer?
 
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#723
#723
Rickyvol77 said:
Not really, neither Zimmerman or this guy would've shot Arbury or Martin if they hadn't physically attacked them. Simply being somewhere in public (EVEN WITH A FIREARM in POSSESSION) doesn't mean you are automatically threatened and should attack someone.
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No, being in public with a firearm is not a threat. Following a pedestrian in your vehicle, cutting him off multiple times, and then exiting your vehicle with a firearm is absolutely a threat to any reasonable mind.
 
#725
#725
hog88 said:
They shouldn't have pursued and confronted him. He was running away.
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Right, their duty under the law should have been observe and report unless life was in danger. They initiated this series of unfortunate events.
 
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