The murder of Ahmaud Arbery

[bamawriter]

When you have the option to continue running away, it's not self defense to double back 40 feet and starting a punching a guy in the face, or attempting to steal his gun away from him, you better articulate self-defense better than that.

He had run away and they doubled back to cut him off. Given that they were in a truck while he was on foot, it's not unreasonable for Arbery to conclude that running away was not going to be successful. If the filming car was a part of the pursuit, then the argument that Arbery should have turned around and kept running goes completely out the window.

 

[Dr Dread]

George was a bit different...but still stupid.
Trayvon was stupid, too.

Not understanding all the talk about Trayvon. How long would you allow an unknown assailant to stalk you in the middle of the night before confronting him. By the conversation his girlfriend, it was obvious that he knew he was being stalked. And the fact that a 17 yo admitted to his girlfriend that he was scared says a lot. Why did SYG not apply to him? Since the incident, we’ve had plenty chances to observe Zimmerman and assess his credibility. He’s proven to have none.

 

[ClearwaterVol]

Fair enough, but there is a HUGE HUGE legal difference between:

- I have a gun in a holster on my body that you can see
- I have a gun in my hands but its pointed down to the ground
- I have a gun in my hands pointed straight at you.

We only know the first two things happened, if they come out and new evidence shows that the guys pointed them at the guy and stated "you better stop a**hole or i'll shoot you" i would say that would change my opinion of the initial encounter.

Holding a shotgun while telling someone that you are making a "citizen's arrest" after you have been in "hot pursuit" is a threat in and of itself and places a reasonable person in fear for their safety.

 

[Bigun]

Not understanding all the talk about Trayvon. How long would you allow an unknown assailant to stalk you in the middle of the night before confronting him. By the conversation his girlfriend, it was obvious that he knew he was being stalked. And the fact that a 17 yo admitted to his girlfriend that he was scared says a lot. Why did SYG not apply to him? Since the incident, we’ve had plenty chances to observe Zimmerman and assess his credibility. He’s proven to have none.

Both Zimmerman and TM were/are idiots. Treyvon went back home then came back out so he wasn't too scared and he wasn't so scared he confronted Zimmerman and started beating his head in on the sidewalk. Zimmerman should have turned around once he was told too but that doesn't make him guilty of murder.

Point stands that if the prosecutor didn't give into the SJW idiots/racebaiters and overcharge him they could have likely gotten a conviction with a charge of involuntary manslaughter. Hopefully these prosecutors will do that same and not give in to the mob/fake outrage of emotion.

 

[37L1]

He had run away and they doubled back to cut him off. Given that they were in a truck while he was on foot, it's not unreasonable for Arbery to conclude that running away was not going to be successful. If the filming car was a part of the pursuit, then the argument that Arbery should have turned around and kept running goes completely out the window.

No it doesn't. You can run places a car and truck can't go, like off the road. I would have. But, hey, that's just me.

 

[bamawriter]

No it doesn't. You can run places a car and truck can't go, like off the road. I would have. But, hey, that's just me.

It doesn't matter what you believe you would have done or even what you believe Arbery should have done. What matters is whether or not his actions were reasonable within the context of the situation in which he found himself. You will have a very hard time arguing that they weren't.

 

[hog88]

Not understanding all the talk about Trayvon. How long would you allow an unknown assailant to stalk you in the middle of the night before confronting him. By the conversation his girlfriend, it was obvious that he knew he was being stalked. And the fact that a 17 yo admitted to his girlfriend that he was scared says a lot. Why did SYG not apply to him? Since the incident, we’ve had plenty chances to observe Zimmerman and assess his credibility. He’s proven to have none.

Long enough for me to get to the house I was staying in and call the police or long enough for the police to show up after I call them on my cell phone.

 

[37L1]

It doesn't matter what you believe you would have done or even what you believe Arbery should have done. What matters is whether or not his actions were reasonable within the context of the situation in which he found himself. You will have a very hard time arguing that they weren't.

Grabbing the barrel of a shotgun pointed at you is reasonable?

Not in my book. It's either comply or fly. If he had done either of those options, . . . but he chose the one that made him dead.

 

[bamawriter]

Grabbing the barrel of a shotgun pointed at you is reasonable?

Is this a serious question?

Not in my book. It's either comply or fly. If he had done either of those options, . . . but he chose the one that made him dead.

Comply with whom? The gunwielding nutjobs that have been chasing him for the last several minutes? And he tried to fly and they cut him off a second time. How many times was he supposed to keep turning around while hoping they'd give up?

 

[McDad]

Not understanding all the talk about Trayvon. How long would you allow an unknown assailant to stalk you in the middle of the night before confronting him. By the conversation his girlfriend, it was obvious that he knew he was being stalked. And the fact that a 17 yo admitted to his girlfriend that he was scared says a lot. Why did SYG not apply to him? Since the incident, we’ve had plenty chances to observe Zimmerman and assess his credibility. He’s proven to have none.

Confronting people is stupid. That's the point. The assumption should be "i don't know what weapons this person has", "I don't know what this person is capable of". People is genuine fear for their life should not bring knuckles to a gun fight.

That's why he was stupid.

 

[Rickyvol77]

Not understanding all the talk about Trayvon. How long would you allow an unknown assailant to stalk you in the middle of the night before confronting him. By the conversation his girlfriend, it was obvious that he knew he was being stalked. And the fact that a 17 yo admitted to his girlfriend that he was scared says a lot. Why did SYG not apply to him? Since the incident, we’ve had plenty chances to observe Zimmerman and assess his credibility. He’s proven to have none.

Because Martin was on his porch at his house and Zimmerman was walking back to his car when Martin ran back out towards him hit him, and started bashing his head on the concrete while on top of him...it's not stand your ground to assault someone else...period

 

[RavinDave]

Apparently in the 911 call I believe the shooter states there is video of this guy, or who they believe to be this guy, looking into homes etc. His criminal history was possession of a firearm at an after school function and running from police. I may be sightly off on those details though.

This story was aired briefly on Fox News a little while ago. According to that piece, there is a recording of a 911 call made by one of the pair pursuing the now deceased, in which the 911 operator asked if a crime had been committed and was answered, “There is a black man running down the road”.

 

[37L1]

Is this a serious question?



Comply with whom? The gunwielding nutjobs that have been chasing him for the last several minutes? And he tried to fly and they cut him off a second time. How many times was he supposed to keep turning around while hoping they'd give up?

Run until you can't run no more.

So you think that trying to hit the guy while grabbing the barrel of a shotgun was a good and reasonable plan?

The results say otherwise.

 

[ClearwaterVol]

Grabbing the barrel of a shotgun pointed at you is reasonable?

Not in my book. It's either comply or fly. If he had done either of those options, . . . but he chose the one that made him dead.

The issue is not whether he took the wise action. The issue is whether his response was legal.

 

[Rickyvol77]

It doesn't matter what you believe you would have done or even what you believe Arbery should have done. What matters is whether or not his actions were reasonable within the context of the situation in which he found himself. You will have a very hard time arguing that they weren't.

its hard to argue its reasonable to run 40-50 ft to a guy and punch him in the face several times and attempt to grab his shotgun out of his hands when you had other options

 

[37L1]

The issue is not whether he took the wise action. The issue is whether his response was legal.

No, the issue is that his choice resulted in his death, along with the criminal actions of the gun toters.

All the other "legal" stuff doesn't matter to him now.

 

[TheDeeble]

This story was aired briefly on Fox News a little while ago. According to that piece, there is a recording of a 911 call made by one of the pair pursuing the now deceased, in which the 911 operator asked if a crime had been committed and was answered, “There is a black man running down the road”.

Is this the unedited call or a call edited by the media to sound incriminating as was the case with Zimmerman initially?

 

[Rickyvol77]

This story was aired briefly on Fox News a little while ago. According to that piece, there is a recording of a 911 call made by one of the pair pursuing the now deceased, in which the 911 operator asked if a crime had been committed and was answered, “There is a black man running down the road”.

There were two different calls to 911

One man told the dispatcher:
Caller: “There’s a guy in the house right now, it’s under construction.”
Dispatcher: “And you said someone’s breaking into it right now?”
Caller: “No, it’s all open. It’s under construction ... and there he goes right now.”
Dispatcher: “OK, what is he doing?”
Caller: “He is running down the street.”
Dispatcher: “That’s fine I will get police out there. I just need to know what he was doing wrong. Was he just on the premises and not supposed to be?”
Caller: “He has been caught on camera a bunch at night. It’s kind of an ongoing thing. The man building the house has got heart issues. I think he’s not going to finish it.”
Dispatch: “OK, that’s fine. And you said he was a male in a black T-shirt?”
Caller: “White T-shirt. Black guy, white T-shirt. He’s done run into the neighborhood again.”

he next 911 call:
Caller: “I’m out here at Satilla Shores, there’s a black male running down the street.”
Dispatch: “Where at Satilla Shores?”
Caller: “I don’t know what street we’re on. Stop! Watch that. Stop. Stop.”
The caller does not respond to dispatch after that.
According to a police report, Gregory McMichael, a former investigator for the Brunswick District Attorney’s office, told police he saw Arbery run by and recognized him from the break-ins.

 

[bamawriter]

Run until you can't run no more.

So you think that trying to hit the guy while grabbing the barrel of a shotgun was a good and reasonable plan?

The results say otherwise.

Good? No. Reasonable? It can't be argued otherwise.

 

[37L1]

Good? No. Reasonable? It can't be argued otherwise.

Wanna bet? Ever been in a court room? Ever experienced lawyers in action?

 

[RavinDave]

Is this the unedited call or a call edited by the media to sound incriminating as was the case with Zimmerman initially?

They only mentioned the one call and only the part I quoted. Not sure about any editing on one or the other call.

 

[bamawriter]

its hard to argue its reasonable to run 40-50 ft to a guy and punch him in the face several times and attempt to grab his shotgun out of his hands when you had other options

He didn't run 40-50 feet directly at the guy. He swerved and ran to the other side of the truck. Cletus moved toward him across the front of the truck. To say that Arbery clearly instigated a confrontation is to lie about what can be seen on the video.

 

[bamawriter]

Wanna bet? Ever been in a court room? Ever experienced lawyers in action?

Allow me to rephrase: it cannot honestly be argued otherwise.

 

[37L1]

Allow me to rephrase: it cannot honestly be argued otherwise.

Well, that is your opinion and I understand why you feel that way.

Bottom line for me, this is a tragedy that did not have to happen. Hopefully, for the some of us who may have needed it, this can serve as a valuable lesson. You have guns then you need to act responsibly. One man died, two or three others ruined their lives and for what? As far as I can see, nothing.

 

[Dr Dread]

Confronting people is stupid. That's the point. The assumption should be "i don't know what weapons this person has", "I don't know what this person is capable of". People is genuine fear for their life should not bring knuckles to a gun fight.

That's why he was

Because Martin was on his porch at his house and Zimmerman was walking back to his car when Martin ran back out towards him hit him, and started bashing his head on the concrete while on top of him...it's not stand your ground to assault someone else...period

Fair enough.