The murder of Ahmaud Arbery

#652
#652
Sandman 423 said:
Here is my thing. If you are to chicken sh*t to confront the man without a gun, call the police.
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i dont disagree but the story said they believed he might have a weapon earlier because the way he kept reaching into his pants...more likely to me is that he was wearing his pants baggy (because he wasn't jogging) and was trying to keep them up while running away.
 
#653
#653
Rickyvol77 said:
i watched the video in slow motion. To me it looks like the suspect was running away, and then made a beeline to attack the son, who appeared to be standing in front of his door on the drivers side, it doesnt look like he is standing in front of the truck, as his feet are standing still on the drivers side.

The only clear thing on the video is that the suspect is the one who does a 180 and runs to attack the son physically and tries to steal the shotgun away
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Well, good thing you can look at stills and don't have to rely on slow-mo. He starts here:

1588780094349.png

And when the guy tries to avoid him, he ends up with just one leg on the driver's side after being pushed back:

1588780136411.png

So care to revise your statement? Can you please acknowledge that the man pursued him from the left lane on the backside of the truck to the right lane on the front side of the truck?
 
#654
#654
n_huffhines said:
Well, good thing you can look at stills and don't have to rely on slow-mo. He starts here:

View attachment 276999

And when the guy tries to avoid him, he ends up with just one leg on the driver's side after being pushed back:

View attachment 277000

So care to revise your statement? Can you please acknowledge that the man pursued him from the left lane on the backside of the truck to the right lane on the front side of the truck?
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show me where the son is on the right side of the truck? he never is shown directly in front of the truck and you can't tell from that shot his exact location, as the door obstructs the view.
 
#657
#657
hndog609 said:
I don't think this fits the definition of murder unless you believe the actual point of their going after him included intent to kill. That would be exceedingly difficult to prove in court and frankly I don't believe it the case anyway. Look for involuntary manslaughter to be the most likely charge.

It's silly to me to think POTUS is supposed to be addressing something like this...that office has other things to do.
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The only thing I will dispute is manslaughter vs murder. They got in their pickup and confronted the guy with guns drawn. I hope they go down "big league" and you should too if what appears to have occurred did occur.
 
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#658
#658
Rickyvol77 said:
i dont disagree but the story said they believed he might have a weapon earlier because the way he kept reaching into his pants...more likely to me is that he was wearing his pants baggy (because he wasn't jogging) and was trying to keep them up while running away.
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The comment about seeing him reach in his pants was talking about the previous time they saw him (or whom they thought was him).
 
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#660
#660
BreatheUT said:
The only thing I will dispute is manslaughter vs murder. They got in their pickups and confronted the guy with guys drawn. I hope they go down "big league" and you should too if what appears to have occurred did occur.
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I'm not sure you understand the legal definition of murder. Unless you think you can effectively argue that the actual willfull intent was for these men to run down this person for the express purpose of killing him murder is a dubious charge.

If convicted of manslaughter that's no small matter. (Drejka got 20 years just to throw out an example)
 
#661
#661
Rickyvol77 said:
show me where the son is on the right side of the truck? he never is shown directly in front of the truck and you can't tell from that shot his exact location, as the door obstructs the view.
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I didn't say he is on the right side of the truck, I said he's in the right lane on the front side of the truck.

How could the guy push him back if he's not on the front side of the truck? If he's at the wheel well or behind the front of the truck, that would mean the truck is between them. Makes no sense. You can see from his shadow and the truck's shadow that he's in front of the truck. You're a fraud and too biased to even converse with.
 
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#663
#663
hndog609 said:
I'm not sure you understand the legal definition of murder. Unless you think you can effectively argue that the actual willfull intent was for these men to run down this person for the express purpose of killing him murder is a dubious charge.

If convicted of manslaughter that's no small matter. (Drejka got 20 years just to throw out an example)
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Yes, I think they intended to kill him from the beginning.

I also think there are certain times you make an example out of people. For instance, a person goes into a convenience store or fast food chain to rob it. Kills teenagers as collateral damage. If found and convicted, don't just hand out life as a verdict. Give them the death penalty in all cases, then you will reduce the number of robbery/homicides involving people just trying to earn a paycheck and in some cases kids who just work a few hours while going to school.

In this case, I think you attempt to give these guys the hammer. Life in prison or 25 or more.
 
#664
#664
Purple Tiger said:
The idiot was pointing the gun at an innocent man. The dead guy could have taken the gun away, shot the goober and still been in the clear.
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Only an “idiot goober” would try to take a loaded gun away from someone. Michael Brown and Trayvon Martin being 2 other examples.
 
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#665
#665
TNVOLNAVY said:
Only an “idiot goober” would try to take a loaded gun away from someone. Michael Brown and Trayvon Martin being 2 other examples.
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Really. You wouldn't fight back if someone had a gun pointed at you and you thought he/she would shoot you?
 
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#666
#666
Black, white, red, yellow, brown. Racially motivated or not. My $.02:

-Would it matter what color the guy was, unless and if the news had identified the possible suspect as a white male, and the father/son duo still reacted the same? A question we won't know the answer to. Robbery suspect apparently already identified as black, whether it was this guy or not. Racism likely in this case for several reasons, but not likely the root cause other than "he looked like" the black male that was a potential suspect. They didn't attack him specifically because he was black. There's arguments both ways on this.

-Is it common for people that jog frequently to wear what appears in video clip to be cargo type shorts. IIRC, when I ran track, and at other times, shorts not meant for running or jogging chafed the crap out of my legs. So, was victim as family says, or was he legitimately the suspect? And, was it common for him to jog in this neighborhood and did he live reasonably close, as runners do clock different mileages when they run. But, most have preferred and consistent routes. If there was legitimate concern he was the suspect, they were not in the wrong to follow him until LE could arrive and check him out. It would not be racist to ask LE to check this guy out even though he is black. If the current alleged suspect was identified as black and they are looking for a black, why would you approach a white? Racism would be, the suspect is black, this guy is black, must be him. Must have been a composite released because they said it looked like the suspect.

-A lot of subjectivity in my first two points. However, the two white men were not LE. They were not on their personal property. They were armed, in a vehicle, in pre-meditated pursuit, apparently with intent to harm as it appears in the clip. They did not inform LE they were following said suspect from a distance in order for them to arrive and do their job, which would have been the right way to handle their suspicion of this man. I have no clue if these two men would have reacted differently toward alleged suspect if he had not been black. If it were common for this man to frequently jog in this area, they would have at the least recognized him as such. However, regardless of victims color, the two men created a bad situation with their actions, were not in danger, and totally screwed the pooch with their vigilante justice. It will be a travesty if nothing comes of this. The victim, if he was indeed the bonified suspect, deserved his due process of law. He did not get that opportunity.
 
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#667
#667
TNVOLNAVY said:
Only an “idiot goober” would try to take a loaded gun away from someone. Michael Brown and Trayvon Martin being 2 other examples.
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I think those are different circumstances that I personally don't want to get into. I do think Brown was guilty and that could've been avoided.

Zimmerman on the other hand should be behind bars.

Back to this case, maybe I need to watch the video again but it looks like they confronted the guy with a gun to his face. Where are you going to run?
 
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#669
#669
SpaceCoastVol said:
How many murders in Chicago this past weekend will go unpunished?

Why should I be more upset about this particular one?
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If there was a murder in Chicago and they knew exactly who committed it, but instead of charging them, they decided to try and cover it up I promise people would be upset.
 
#670
#670
BreatheUT said:
Yes, I think they intended to kill him from the beginning.

I also think there are certain times you make an example out of people. For instance, a person goes into a convenience store or fast food chain to rob it. Kills teenagers as collateral damage. If found and convicted, don't just hand out life as a verdict. Give them the death penalty in all cases, then you will reduce the number of robbery/homicides involving people just trying to earn a paycheck and in some cases kids who just work a few hours while going to school.

In this case, I think you attempt to give these guys the hammer. Life in prison or 25 or more.
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No way to say that with any certainty, and it's irresponsible to say that, IMO.
 
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#671
#671
Purple Tiger said:
Really. You wouldn't fight back if someone had a gun pointed at you and you thought he/she would shoot you?
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If I see someone with a gun looking at me the wrong way, I'm putting as much distance as possible between me and that person. If I'm on the road like the guy in the video, I'm cutting through yards where they can't get near me in a truck.
 
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#673
#673
Rickyvol77 said:
The only evidence of that is after the guy ran at him, hit him several times and tried to steal the gun from his hands
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The guy admitted he was attempting to make a "citizen's arrest." Admitted being in hot pursuit in a truck vs. a man jogging. Truck stopped in front of man jogging with man with gun outside it. Another man brandishing a handgun in the bed of the truck.
Kind of writes itself. The whole thing looks like a lynching scene from a movie. Idiot redneck in the back of the truck with a gun and all as they chase down the black guy. These yahoos would be convicted in record time.
 
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#675
#675
n_huffhines said:
No way to say that with any certainty, and it's irresponsible to say that, IMO.
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I agree. I've admitted I don't have all the details but it appears on the surface that these guys got in the truck, either took guns with them or already had them in the truck. One of the men is already in the back which means they can shoot him easier let's say than if they both were riding in the cabin.

I also don't know if it was racially motivated. I said maybe a case can be made it was racially motivated but I don't think there is an argument for terrorism. I don't know.
 
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