The murder of Ahmaud Arbery

Weezer · May 7, 2020

Rickyvol77 said:
Prior to Arbery's shooting, the man said in a second interview Wednesday, the cameras on three or four occasions captured someone walking on the property at night -- one time stealing $2,500 of fishing tackle from a boat in his garage -- but he could not identify the perpetrator.
He did not file a police report, he said, but called the incident "unnerving and unsettling."

Just because a police report wasnt filed on incidents, doesnt mean that the whole neighborhood wasn't aware of the issues they were having. And there had been a police report of a vehicle burglary and theft of firearm from the truck.

Apparently these security cameras the day of the incident show Arbery sneaking around two properties in the same areas, that this other person "jogging at night" had been as well

So they had nothing conclusive to act upon, just suspicion, and decided to take the law in their own hands. Do you think that helps your argument? And not filing a police report really lends credence to vigilante justice, which is not legal.

bamawriter · May 7, 2020

Anybody else interested in Cletus and Jim Bob's lie as to how the confrontation began?

The police report says they pulled up beside Arbery and asked to talk to him, and when he wouldn't stop Cletus got out and Arbery assaulted him. The video clearly shows that to be unmitigated BS.

Weezer · May 7, 2020

Bigun said:
A defense attorney will focus on the part where he grabs the gun and starts throwing punches at the guy holding the gun. Again, not saying it is right, just saying if they can get the officers in the Rodney King trial off then they have a shot at these guys.

Biggest difference is those were police officers and these two men are not.

Vol8188 · May 7, 2020

bamawriter said:
Anybody else interested in Cletus and Jim Bob's lie as to who the confrontation began?

The police report says they pulled up beside Arbery and asked to talk to him, and when he wouldn't stop Cletus got out and Arbery assaulted him. The video clearly shows that to be unmitigated BS.

How does the video show that to be bs? To me their story seems to be holding up well with the surveillance images of him being identified by his own aunt

Rickyvol77 · May 7, 2020

Weezer said:
So they had nothing conclusive to act upon, just suspicion, and decided to take the law in their own hands. Do you think that helps your argument? And not filing a police report really lends credence to vigilante justice, which is not legal.

They filed a police report and they called 911 twice for this incident to file another.

The other homeowner is the one who didn't file the report. Just because someone chooses not to file a police report, doesn't mean they aren't fully aware and competent of what crimes are occurring in their neighborhood. I am 100% positive that the entire neighborhood was aware of these prowling/theft issues and were on the look out for this guy.

n_huffhines · May 7, 2020

Does anybody wanna bet $50 their will be a manslaughter conviction? The $50 has to go to an agreed upon charity of the winner's choice.

Weezer · May 7, 2020

bamawriter said:
Anybody else interested in Cletus and Jim Bob's lie as to how the confrontation began?

The police report says they pulled up beside Arbery and asked to talk to him, and when he wouldn't stop Cletus got out and Arbery assaulted him. The video clearly shows that to be unmitigated BS.

Two armed men pull up on you and order you to stop. I think the implied threat is there.

hndog609 · May 7, 2020

DinkinFlicka said:
And it's 100% fact that if Zimmerman had obeyed the police on the phone...

See, I can play this game too, except my what if precludes yours.

The **** outta here.

This is incorrect. The phone transcripts show that at one point GZ had gotten out of his car because he wouldn't be able to maintain visual contact to direct the inbound squad car. The dispatcher (perhaps due to wind noise, some reason anyway) asked if he following. GZ replied "Yeah." and was told "We don't need you to do that." to which he replied "OK." At this point in the conversation Martin was gone. The remainder of the conversation between GZ and the dispatcher was taking GZ's information and where to meet the incoming squad car.

This latest example was not "following" but unambiguously initiating a direct armed confrontation. Regardless of whatever else may come forth in evidence/testimony that's a big component that isn't going anywhere.

Vol8188 · May 7, 2020

Weezer said:
So they had nothing conclusive to act upon, just suspicion, and decided to take the law in their own hands. Do you think that helps your argument? And not filing a police report really lends credence to vigilante justice, which is not legal.

No it doesn’t. It just means if you had a bunch of fishing gears stolen it’s hard to trace and you know the cops will just show up and shrug their shoulders. Had a guy break through the window of my car and steal a GPS once. The cops came and basically did nothing. They took a report. That was it.

bamawriter · May 7, 2020

Vol8188 said:
How does the video show that to be bs? To me their story seems to be holding up well with the surveillance images of him being identified by his own aunt

They didn't pull up beside him. They stopped in the middle of the road and Cletus got out brandishing a shotgun and stood there waiting on him. There were still a solid 30-40 yards between the parties when the video picks up. Did you watch some other video?

bamawriter · May 7, 2020

Weezer said:
Two armed men pull up on you and order you to stop. I think the implied threat is there.

Agreed. But I would think creating an armed blockade in the middle of the road is considerably more threatening. They downplayed what they did to police.

Weezer · May 7, 2020

Rickyvol77 said:
They filed a police report and they called 911 twice for this incident to file another.

The other homeowner is the one who didn't file the report. Just because someone chooses not to file a police report, doesn't mean they aren't fully aware and competent of what crimes are occurring in their neighborhood. I am 100% positive that the entire neighborhood was aware of these prowling/theft issues and were on the look out for this guy.

You said they only filed a report on the gun stolen from the truck. They didn't file a report on the other alleged theft.

Without living in the neighborhood yourself, you have no foundation for what you believe they knew or were doing.

bamawriter · May 7, 2020

Vol8188 said:
No it doesn’t. It just means if you had a bunch of fishing gears stolen it’s hard to trace and you know the cops will just show up and shrug their shoulders. Had a guy break through the window of my car and steal a GPS once. The cops came and basically did nothing. They took a report. That was it.

Such is life. If the cops had found the stolen finishing gear or gun at Arbery's house there might be some argument to made in defense of their actions.

Vol8188 · May 7, 2020

bamawriter said:
They didn't pull up beside him. They stopped in the middle of the road and Cletus got out brandishing a shotgun and stood there waiting on him. There were still a solid 30-40 yards between the parties when the video picks up. Did you watch some other video?

Yes. If you pull up beside of someone and ask them to stop, you would likely pull up in front of them before getting out. Especially if they’re running.

I’m not convinced this minor detail make a big difference. The only difference I see is it proves the crowd wrong who believe they set out with intent to kill the man. Given they let him close that 30-40 yard distance

Vol8188 · May 7, 2020

bamawriter said:
Such is life. If the cops had found the stolen finishing gear or gun at Arbery's house there might be some argument to made in defense of their actions.

Why would anyone hold on to stolen anything?

Rickyvol77 · May 7, 2020

DinkinFlicka said:
I know, and so does he. He chose Lonsdale on purpose.

Weezer · May 7, 2020

Vol8188 said:
Yes. If you pull up beside of someone and ask them to stop, you would likely pull up in front of them before getting out. Especially if they’re running.

I’m not convinced this minor detail make a big difference. The only difference I see is it proves the crowd wrong who believe they set out with intent to kill the man. Given they let him close that 30-40 yard distance

WHO is arguing they intended to murder the man? I keep seeing this claimed but have not seen anyone say anything more than manslaughter. Murder and manslaughter are two different charges. There's enough there for a manslaughter charge.

Bigun · May 7, 2020

bamawriter said:
They didn't pull up beside him. They stopped in the middle of the road and Cletus got out brandishing a shotgun and stood there waiting on him. There were still a solid 30-40 yards between the parties when the video picks up. Did you watch some other video?

Just curious if the script was flipped would you say "Tyrone got out of the brandishing a shotgun and stood there waiting on him"?

Rickyvol77 · May 7, 2020

bamawriter said:
Such is life. If the cops had found the stolen finishing gear or gun at Arbery's house there might be some argument to made in defense of their actions.

Did they look there? I bet not

bamawriter · May 7, 2020

Vol8188 said:
Yes. If you pull up beside of someone and ask them to stop, you would likely pull up in front of them before getting out. Especially if they’re running.

But that's not what they told police.

McMichael stated they saw the unidentified male and shouted “stop stop, we want to talk to you.” McMichael stated they pulled up beside the male and shouted stop again at which time Travis exited the truck with the shotgun. McMichael stated the unidentified male began to violently attack Travis and the two men then started fighting over the shotgun at which point Travis fired a shot and then a second later there was a second shot.

That's very different from, "we pulled well ahead of him, intentionally blocked the road, and Travis stood outside the truck with his gun drawn."

bamawriter · May 7, 2020

Vol8188 said:
Why would anyone hold on to stolen anything?

In all likelihood, Arbery wouldn't have done so. But one way or the other, there isn't a scintilla of physical evidence that links Arbery with the thefts.

Vol8188 · May 7, 2020

bamawriter said:
But that's not what they told police.

That's very different from, "we pulled well ahead of him, intentionally blocked the road, and Travis stood outside the truck with his gun drawn."

Memory and how actual events play out often have slight gaps. If anything pulling way ahead is probably less threatening that jumping out closer to him. I don’t see this as that key of an element.

bamawriter · May 7, 2020

Bigun said:
Just curious if the script was flipped would you say "Tyrone got out of the brandishing a shotgun and stood there waiting on him"?

Actually I would. I don't mind using insensitive language when referring to human garbage.

bamawriter · May 7, 2020

Vol8188 said:
Memory and how actual events play out often have slight gaps. If anything pulling way ahead is probably less threatening that jumping out closer to him. I don’t see this as that key of an element.

Good thing you're not in the jury pool.

Behr · May 7, 2020

n_huffhines said:
Does anybody wanna bet $50 their will be a manslaughter conviction? The $50 has to go to an agreed upon charity of the winner's choice.

Nope. And they better be glad I don't get to testify on what I THINK happened.

Side note: its been weird agreeing with you and bama.

The murder of Ahmaud Arbery

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