The murder of Ahmaud Arbery

[RockyTop85]

To be felony murder you must show intent. Where are you finding intent to kill or harm in this video?

Or are you using a different definition? If so can you provide it

You only have to show intent for the underlying felony.

 

[BreatheUT]

Imagine if the guy who "just wanted to talk" got out of the truck without a shotgun, knowing his dad in the bed of the truck had a gun if things got hairy? Or, even if he was intent on the intimidation factor, not have the shotgun loaded? The victim would never have known.

And the victim had no idea they had called the cops. Despite what some have said, I've seen no mention of the two men actually saying they told him that. They ordered him to stop(and I say ordered because when it comes from two armed men they aren't asking) and said they wanted to talk, while brandishing guns. Strange to be brandishing guns if you "just want to talk".

Everyone reacts differently. Some run, some fight. If I think I'm about to be killed I'm going down swinging. But that's just me.

Yeah, if I'm forced to face two guys with guns and I don't know why then I'm approaching the side of that truck with a plan and hope I can succeed.

 

[RockyTop85]

2014 Georgia Code :: Title 16 - CRIMES AND OFFENSES :: Chapter 5 - CRIMES AGAINST THE PERSON :: Article 1 - HOMICIDE :: § 16-5-1 - Murder; malice murder; felony murder; murder in the second degree

(c) A person commits the offense of murder when, in the commission of a felony, he or she causes the death of another human being irrespective of malice.


2017 Georgia Code :: Title 16 - Crimes and Offenses :: Chapter 5 - Crimes Against the Person :: Article 2 - Assault and Battery :: § 16-5-21. Aggravated assault

a) A person commits the offense of aggravated assault when he or she assaults:

(2) With a deadly weapon or with any object, device, or instrument which, when used offensively against a person, is likely to or actually does result in serious bodily injury;


(b) Except as provided in subsections (c) through (k) of this Code section, a person convicted of the offense of aggravated assault shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than one nor more than 20 years.

So Agg assault is an assault with a weapon. Just like in TN. It’s clearly a felony. So what is an assault?.

2010 Georgia Code :: TITLE 16 - CRIMES AND OFFENSES :: CHAPTER 5 - CRIMES AGAINST THE PERSON :: ARTICLE 2 - ASSAULT AND BATTERY :: § 16-5-20 - Simple assault

(2) Commits an act which places another in reasonable apprehension of immediately receiving a violent injury.

Seems like a solid legal basis for the charge.

@Vol8188

 

[Weezer]

To be felony murder you must show intent. Where are you finding intent to kill or harm in this video?

Or are you using a different definition? If so can you provide it

If you are engaged in a felony activity, which it could be argued they are, any death that occurs is automatically felony murder.

 

[BreatheUT]

He's alive, that's all that matters.

How do you know this? These guys had been chasing him.

 

[RockyTop85]

Might be true. I've not said otherwise.

My position all along was responding to a post that suggested Arbery was going to be killed by them even if there was never a physical struggle for the shotgun.

Just using your reaction, which I think is reasonable, to illustrate the point.

 

[37L1]

How do you know this? These guys had been chasing him.

Trucks can't go into yards and those guys wouldn't win a 30' sprint. It's harder to hit a moving target than one at the very end of the barrel. But it must just be a WAG on my part.

 

[n_huffhines]

If I'm on foot I'm going where trucks can't. If I'm in that situation I'm going to make them chase me on foot. Jump a fence, cut through a back yard or park, or look for an area with trees.

Really easy (and completely pointless) to second guess from where you're sitting.

 

[Vol8188]

@Vol8188

Thank you. You were clearly correct

 

[TheDeeble]

It's not that simple. Then he is in people yards, he's in the woods, who knows.

It is that simple. Turn right and hop fence.

Do you think I'd give a crap about about running through someone's yard if there's someone in a truck that appears to be threatening me with a shotgun?

Put yourself in that spot. You're 30 or so feet out from a stopped truck and a guy standing there with a shotgun. You're going to run at him? Or will you realize you can actually leave paved surface and try to run where they can't easily follow you?

 

[BreatheUT]

He's alive, that's all that matters.

Again we do not know if that's true. All of a sudden we have no witnesses. Did he know where he was going once he got off the road? You're making assumptions. Clearly hindsight being 20/20 he appears to have a better chance than current death. These vigilantes needs to be tried before a jury of their peers and that is what we are going to see.

 

[BreatheUT]

It is that simple. Turn right and hop fence.

Do you think I'd give a crap about about running through someone's yard if there's someone in a truck that appears to be threatening me with a shotgun?

Put yourself in that spot. You're 30 or so feet out from a stopped truck and a guy standing there with a shotgun. You're going to run at him? Or will you realize you can actually leave paved surface and try to run where they can't easily follow you?

I'm fine with your perspective.

 

[NEO]

Travis looks like a moron.

 

[37L1]

Again we do not know if that's true. All of a sudden we have no witnesses. Did he know where he was going once he got off the road? You're making assumptions. Clearly hindsight being 20/20 he appears to have a better chance than current death. These vigilantes needs to be tried before a jury of their peers.

Never denied your last sentence. But common sense says that if he kept on moving instead of fighting he stood a much better chance of survival.

Distance and cover. Just a basic survival rule.

 

[TheDeeble]

Really easy (and completely pointless) to second guess from where you're sitting.

Pretty much everything posted in a football forum is pointless second guessing.

If dude hadn't charged the guy with the shotgun and attacked him he would probably still be alive. That's the only definitive statement I'm making and even then that's because someone suggested otherwise. Nothing about guilt or innocence or defending the actions of the guys in the truck.

Although after seeing some of the replies in this thread it appears we have some people that think themselves action heroes that would charge a guy with a shotgun from 30 or so feet out and disarm him without getting shot.

 

[Weezer]

Trucks can't go into yards and those guys wouldn't win a 30' sprint. It's harder to hit a moving target than one at the very end of the barrel. But it must just be a WAG on my part.

Truck behind him, truck in front of him, how was he possibly supposed to believe they wouldn't start shooting if he took off? What looks like common sense after the fact isn't always logical in the moment. And like I said, he isn't outrunning a bullet.

We'll never know what he was thinking because he's dead. It's not hard for me to imagine he was scared as hell. Whether or not he actually did anything, he's being pursued by two vehicles, one of which obviously has two armed men. Maybe he tried running around the truck, praying they weren't really after him, but saw the son with the shotgun advancing and in that split second decided he had to fight for his life? Not unreasonable to think. But we'll never know, because he's dead, and the actions of the father and son, and even the filming vehicle, led to his death.

 

[RockyTop85]

Thank you. You were clearly correct

its kind of a ******** theory. It is supposed to make people think twice before committing armed robbery with their crazy cousin with a twitchy trigger finger. But how much deterrent effect does it have if nobody knows about it?

I think it’s plausible that a jury returns a lesser included but since the prosecutor doesn’t have to go to prison if he loses, the defendant tends to blink. Just curious whether it’s gotten too much attention to settle, now.

 

[BreatheUT]

Never denied your last sentence. But common sense says that if he kept on moving instead of fighting he stood a much better chance of survival.

Distance and cover. Just a basic survival rule.

Wouldn't you potentially be confused why you are running in the first place and all you know are the main roads? We have the perspective of the end result.

 

[Rickyvol77]

You don’t understand what I’m saying:
The law says it’s felony murder.

A jury would have to feel bad for them to ignore the law.

Juries don’t tend to feel bad for people who were doing things that are universally regarded as stupid or wrong.

Interesting you say that the last line

 

[NEO]

Trucks can't go into yards and those guys wouldn't win a 30' sprint. It's harder to hit a moving target than one at the very end of the barrel. But it must just be a WAG on my part.

I totally agree but we are talking a 25 year old who was probably not thinking calmly at this point.

When they first pulled over he was thinking I am about to be in a fist fight and then he saw the gun and made a bad decision to try to grab it.

Hard for anyone to say how well we would have handled this until we are actually in the moment.

 

[37L1]

its kind of a ******** theory. It is supposed to make people think twice before committing armed robbery with their crazy cousin with a twitchy trigger finger. But how much deterrent effect does it have if nobody knows about it?

I think it’s plausible that a jury returns a lesser included but since the prosecutor doesn’t have to go to prison if he loses, the defendant tends to blink. Just curious whether it’s gotten too much attention to settle, now.

Well, they won't get the death penalty, so a lesser charge than murder with a long sentence might be the only deal that could be offered due to the notoriety.

They would be gambling with the max sentence if they went to trial. What, 25 years to life without parole?

 

[Vol737]

Travis looks like a moron.

I’m sure they’re having a blast in general population at the Glynn County Jail right now.

 

[37L1]

I totally agree but we are talking a 25 year old who was probably not thinking calmly at this point.

When they first pulled over he was thinking I am about to be in a fist fight and then he saw the gun and made a bad decision to try to grab it.

Hard for anyone to say how well we would have handled this until we are actually in the moment.

Sorry, but I don't think most would say, "I know, I'll grab the gun and shoot him first." He was already in flight, the natural tendency is to keep on flying until you can't any more. Like I said before, running through the briars and running through the brambles, running in places that a rabbit couldn't go. Let alone, two or three fat guys in vehicles.

 

[RockyTop85]

Interesting you say that the last line

I don’t think having your fight or flight reaction go the wrong way is quite the same as gathering an armed posse and chasing someone in your truck. You yourself admit you wouldn’t do what these guys did and you’re their fiercest advocate.

 

[TheDeeble]

Wouldn't you potentially be confused why you are running in the first place and all you know are the main roads?