The murder of Ahmaud Arbery

#1,626
#1,626
TheDeeble said:
Pretty much everything posted in a football forum is pointless second guessing.

If dude hadn't charged the guy with the shotgun and attacked him he would probably still be alive. That's the only definitive statement I'm making and even then that's because someone suggested otherwise. Nothing about guilt or innocence or defending the actions of the guys in the truck.

Although after seeing some of the replies in this thread it appears we have some people that think themselves action heroes that would charge a guy with a shotgun from 30 or so feet out and disarm him without getting shot.
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If the two men hadn't armed themselves and pursued, he'd still be alive. Their actions predate his. Your statement comes across as blaming the victim and exonerating the two people whose actions are most at fault for what happened. Whatever your intent, that's how it comes across.

You keep stressing how he shouldn't have charged/attacked the man with the gun. You keep ignoring the man with the gun had no legal right to try and detain him, nor block a public road with his vehicle. The man with the gun brought the gun and was responsible for the gun. HIS actions are truly the ones that started it all and began the cascading effect.

As for the last part, I know I'm not outrunning a bullet. My best option is to pray and fight back. It's that simple.
 
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#1,627
#1,627
37L1 said:
Well, they won't get the death penalty, so a lesser charge than murder with a long sentence might be the only deal that could be offered due to the notoriety.

They would be gambling with the max sentence if they went to trial. What, 25 years to life without parole?
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In TN Felony Murder is an automatic 60 years with up to 15% good time credits. I think it works out to 51 years. No idea about GA.

The biggest issue with it pleading, to me, is how strong the prosecutor thinks it is and whether it’s still in the spotlight when it goes to trial.
 
#1,628
#1,628
BreatheUT said:
Wouldn't you potentially be confused why you are running in the first place and all you know are the main roads? We have the perspective of the end result.
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Doesn't matter if you know the territory or not. Opt for the unknown path when you know there are guys with guns where you are now. You get lost, well, you are still alive to figure it out.

I don't get the confusion over this. Darwin was right.
 
#1,629
#1,629
RockyTop85 said:
I don’t think having your fight or flight reaction go the wrong way is quite the same as gathering an armed posse and chasing someone in your truck. You yourself admit you wouldn’t do what these guys did and you’re their fiercest advocate.
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I’m not their “advocate”. I just don’t believe they set out with the intent to kill the guy and if he hadn’t attacked them they would not have shot him
 
#1,631
#1,631
37L1 said:
Doesn't matter if you know the territory or not. Opt for the unknown path when you know there are guys with guns where you are now. You get lost, well, you are still alive to figure it out.

I don't get the confusion over this. Darwin was right.
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It is easy to second guess from your sofa.
 
#1,632
#1,632
Vol8188 said:
To be felony murder you must show intent. Where are you finding intent to kill or harm in this video?

Or are you using a different definition? If so can you provide it
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You only have to show intent of the felony that resulted in the murder. In this case, they intended to assault him with deadly weapons, and he wound up dead.
 
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#1,633
#1,633
37L1 said:
Sorry, but I don't think most would say, "I know, I'll grab the gun and shoot him first." He was already in flight, the natural tendency is to keep on flying until you can't any more. Like I said before, running through the briars and running through the brambles, running in places that a rabbit couldn't go. Let alone, two or three fat guys in vehicles.
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That would be your natural tendency. Not everyone is wired the same. For some, flight is the instinct that kicks in. For others, it's fight. You can't apply your psychology to him in this situation. And as I've continued to stress, we'll never know what he was thinking because he can't tell us.
 
#1,634
#1,634
37L1 said:
Sorry, but I don't think most would say, "I know, I'll grab the gun and shoot him first." He was already in flight, the natural tendency is to keep on flying until you can't any more. Like I said before, running through the briars and running through the brambles, running in places that a rabbit couldn't go. Let alone, two or three fat guys in vehicles.
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Everyone is different and I cant say what he was thinking.

When adrenaline kicks in the mind checks out sometimes.

But why are we even debating what he was thinking?

If these two rednecks dont chase him down, stop, get out with a loaded gun, and then fire said gun this never happens.

Whether he decided to stay on the road he legally had a right to be on or he decided to run through the woods is a mute point.
 
#1,635
#1,635
Weezer said:
If the two men hadn't armed themselves and pursued, he'd still be alive. Their actions predate his. Your statement comes across as blaming the victim and exonerating the two people whose actions are most at fault for what happened. Whatever your intent, that's how it comes across.

You keep stressing how he shouldn't have charged/attacked the man with the gun. You keep ignoring the man with the gun had no legal right to try and detain him, nor block a public road with his vehicle. The man with the gun brought the gun and was responsible for the gun. HIS actions are truly the ones that started it all and began the cascading effect.

As for the last part, I know I'm not outrunning a bullet. My best option is to pray and fight back. It's that simple.
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Ever tried to hit a moving target versus one at the very end of your muzzle? What is the hit rate of the two? One is almost nearly 100% Guess which one. It is also unknown if they intended to shoot him all along no matter what either. BTW, I know from experience that fear makes you run faster and for longer than one would think possible. So . . . choices, nothing but choices and the results of the choices made by suspects and victims in this case speak for itself.
 
#1,637
#1,637
Rickyvol77 said:
I’m not their “advocate”. I just don’t believe they set out with the intent to kill the guy and if he hadn’t attacked them they would not have shot him
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If they hadn't have confronted him with guns in hand, he wouldn't have attacked them. And he had no way of knowing their intent. Two armed strangers blocking the road, how was he supposed to know their intent? You've been operating under the assumption the runner was guilty. We don't even know that to be factual.
 
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#1,638
#1,638
Rickyvol77 said:
I’m not their “advocate”. I just don’t believe they set out with the intent to kill the guy and if he hadn’t attacked them they would not have shot him
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That might actually be true, but technically is not legally relevant if the prosecutor can find 12 people who think a couple of armed men chasing you in a truck is scary.
 
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#1,640
#1,640
TheDeeble said:
Pretty much everything posted in a football forum is pointless second guessing.

If dude hadn't charged the guy with the shotgun and attacked him he would probably still be alive. That's the only definitive statement I'm making and even then that's because someone suggested otherwise. Nothing about guilt or innocence or defending the actions of the guys in the truck.

Although after seeing some of the replies in this thread it appears we have some people that think themselves action heroes that would charge a guy with a shotgun from 30 or so feet out and disarm him without getting shot.
Click to expand...

Well, Ricky appreciates your comments, at least, so there's that.
 
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#1,641
#1,641
37L1 said:
Ever tried to hit a moving target versus one at the very end of your muzzle? What is the hit rate of the two? One is almost nearly 100% Guess which one. It is also unknown if they intended to shoot him all along no matter what either. BTW, I know from experience that fear makes you run faster and for longer than one would think possible. So . . . choices, nothing but choices and the results of the choices made by suspects and victims in this case speak for itself.
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You made my own point. He had no way of knowing their intent. He had no way of knowing their accuracy. Hell, put away the assumption that he was actually guilty of something himself, and maybe he thought they would let him be until the son started advancing from around the truck? If he felt he wasn't guilty of anything, why would he have veered off and made himself look suspicious? And by the time he realized they were looking to detain him, it was too late to run. All possibilities, but AGAIN, we'll never know his side of the story.

People keep assuming he was this burglar/prowler/whatever, but we don't know that with any certainty.
 
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#1,643
#1,643
GreyWolf1129 said:
I'll give you this, and then I'm done. You're smart enough to connect the dots.

Homework assignment for this weekend. Google "Caroline Small shooting" and "Cory Sasser shooting". Read everything you can find, but pay particular attention to anything the AJC has. You'll note a common denominator in both of those incidents. Couple of them, in fact.

Now, go get a beer, sit out on your back porch, and connect the dots.

Said all I can. Welcome to "Lower, Slower Georgia." Looks like the swamp is starting to give up its' secrets.

Well, some of them.
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Looks like we have a crooked DA in Jackie Johnson, which also is the same DA office that Greg Mcmichael worked for.
 
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#1,644
#1,644
Rickyvol77 said:
I’m not their “advocate”. I just don’t believe they set out with the intent to kill the guy and if he hadn’t attacked them they would not have shot him
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You seem to be their advocate to me because you've been saying this the whole thread. Yes, if he hadn't gone after the gunman he might be alive still.

But its a guarantee if those two guys had not pursued him WITH firearms he would definitely still be alive.

I'm not sure why you can't seem to grasp that. I mean I really don't care but its kinda weird to me.
 
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#1,647
#1,647
Weezer said:
You made my own point. He had no way of knowing their intent. He had no way of knowing their accuracy. Hell, put away the assumption that he was actually guilty of something himself, and maybe he thought they would let him be until the son started advancing from around the truck? If he felt he wasn't guilty of anything, why would he have veered off and made himself look suspicious? And by the time he realized they were looking to detain him, it was too late to run. All possibilities, but AGAIN, we'll never know his side of the story.

People keep assuming he was this burglar/prowler/whatever, but we don't know that with any certainty.
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It's never too late to run unless you are hog tied or in a cell, and it wasn't too late in his case. The area where the wrestling match for the shotgun occurred would have been a good choice. But, eh, at this point, we are just talking past each other, no minds will change and it doesn't alter the outcome of what happened.

I think we all agree that the victim in this case shouldn't have been killed and the suspects deserve what they get for causing it.
 
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#1,649
#1,649
Weezer said:
Just seems weird coming from a man who killed someone while DUI.
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Although that was a DUI, didn't they determine that that really didn't make a difference? Maybe I'm misremembering, but didn't the guy just dart out in front of Stallworth on a freeway.
 
#1,650
#1,650
evillawyer said:
Although that was a DUI, didn't they determine that that really didn't make a difference? Maybe I'm misremembering, but didn't the guy just dart out in front of Stallworth on a freeway.
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Do not honestly remember myself, just recall it happening. No matter what, he shouldn't have been DUI.
 
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