The NCAA is a shameful organization.

#382
#382
Lawrence Wright said:
It's much more complicated than that. Failing to act when Sandusky's actions became known protected the football program and Paterno's legacy, in addition to Sandusky.

If you're suggesting Penn State's top administrators didn't take into account the financial impact of outing Sandusky, then I completely disagree with you.

As for Syracuse, Boeheim didn't cover up Fine's actions, nor did any of Syracuse's administrators...apples and oranges.
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dude...no kidding. If psu was vigilant in 2001 they wouldn't have covered it up either...the whole premise of your argument is what would have happened had this ended in 2001, namely that there would have been negative financial impact and damaging to legacy. Well, we got a perfect example of what impact it has by looking at syracuse...which is, not much at all.
 
#383
#383
PowerSweep said:
dude...no kidding. If psu was vigilant in 2001 they wouldn't have covered it up either...the whole premise of your argument is what would have happened had this ended in 2001, namely that there would have been negative financial impact and damaging to legacy. Well, we got a perfect example of what impact it has by looking at syracuse...which is, not much at all.
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My premise was that PSU's covered for Sandusky to protect the football program, which generates millions for Penn State's athletic department and is a significant source of funding for PSU's non-revenue producing sports.

I'm of the opinion that Syracuse basketball, as popular as it is on that campus, does not bear nearly the same financial responsibility of subsidizing other athletic programs compared to Penn State's football program.
 
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#384
#384
Lawrence Wright said:
My premise was that PSU's covered for Sandusky to protect the football program, which generates millions for Penn State's athletic department and is a significant source of funding for PSU's non-revenue producing sports.

I'm of the opinion that Syracuse basketball, as popular as it is on that campus, does not bear nearly the same financial responsibility of subsidizing other athletic programs compared to Penn State's football program.
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good grief...of course they do...it is to syracuse what pst football is to psu...but really that is irrelevant, no? The key point is it's had no impact, financial or otherwise...same as would've been for penn st...2 wk story forgotten about 6 mos down the road.

So the whole "they gained a competitive advantage" argument ends right there...best you can do is say "they thought it might hurt", but that's speculation of the first order and not based on any facts at all.
 
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#385
#385
PowerSweep said:
good grief...of course they do...it is to syracuse what pst football is to psu...but really that is irrelevant, no? The key point is it's had no impact, financial or otherwise...same as would've been for penn st...2 wk story forgotten about 6 mos down the road.

So the whole "the gained a competitive advantage" argument ends right there...best you can do is say "they thought it might hurt", but that's speculation of the first order and not based on any facts at all.
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Again, I never said Penn State gained a competitive advantage over the Sandusky scandal. This is the second time you've attempted to suggest that's my position. Please go back and read my posts again before making the same mistake for a third time.

I'm of the opinion that financial consequences were given strong consideration in the decision to suppress Sandusky's actions. This is my position.

I have no case study to back my opinion, and I haven't seen the Syracuse case study you speak of to debate its merit intelligently with you, or discuss the degree to which it can be applied to different sports at different schools.

We simply agree to disagree on this topic.
 
#386
#386
I am including specific arguments that others have made that have generally shared your views that penn st not turning in sandusky was impactful in a positive way to penn st football before 2011.
 
#387
#387
GreyWolf1129 said:
I really don't care who nuked PSU, and PSU football.

It could have been the Peace Corps for all I care. What's important (to me, at least), is that the former head coach, AD, and president (at the very least) covered up a serial pedophile on their staff. As to "why" they did it, well...there's only one logical answer.

Penn State deserved to be drawn and quartered by any organization that had the means and balls to do it. Matters not to me who it ended up being.

Yes, it's a shame that hundreds, possibly thousands of PSU students, athletes, and vendors who had nothing to do with any of this will suffer for the actions of a few. That part, and that part alone, saddens me.

But not nearly as much as the horror and rage I feel at knowing that this could have been stopped no later than 1998 if just one...just one of those who trumpeted the "virtues" of Penn State could have found a single ounce of that same virtue inside their heart.

For me, every day they looked in the mirror after that was simply another violation that deserved to be punished, and harshly.

Personally, I think Paterno's statue should be melted down and turned into a sword that is used to behead those who knew, and did nothing to stop it.

Go Vols.
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best post in this thread.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#388
#388
GreyWolf1129 said:
I really don't care who nuked PSU, and PSU football.

It could have been the Peace Corps for all I care. What's important (to me, at least), is that the former head coach, AD, and president (at the very least) covered up a serial pedophile on their staff. As to "why" they did it, well...there's only one logical answer.

Penn State deserved to be drawn and quartered by any organization that had the means and balls to do it. Matters not to me who it ended up being.

Yes, it's a shame that hundreds, possibly thousands of PSU students, athletes, and vendors who had nothing to do with any of this will suffer for the actions of a few. That part, and that part alone, saddens me.

But not nearly as much as the horror and rage I feel at knowing that this could have been stopped no later than 1998 if just one...just one of those who trumpeted the "virtues" of Penn State could have found a single ounce of that same virtue inside their heart.

For me, every day they looked in the mirror after that was simply another violation that deserved to be punished, and harshly.

Personally, I think Paterno's statue should be melted down and turned into a sword that is used to behead those who knew, and did nothing to stop it.

Go Vols.
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Let me get this straight.

- Thousands of innocent people will suffer.
- Not a single guilty individual will suffer. Oh, except for "Penn State," because it's a sentient being or something.

Totally justifiable punishment, guys!
 
#389
#389
UTRavens said:
Let me get this straight.

- Thousands of innocent people will suffer.
- Not a single guilty individual will suffer. Oh, except for "Penn State," because it's a sentient being or something.

Totally justifiable punishment, guys!
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Life isn't fair. You've probably heard the joke about "fair".

I suffer increased retail costs due to shoplifters. I pay too much for gas because of OPEC and domestic drilling restrictions. My auto insurance is higher because of uninsured and reckless drivers. I never see roughly 35% of my gross income thanks to runaway taxation.

It just isn't fair. It's called "life" and "reality".

Sometimes they suck. Buy a helmet.

Go Vols.
 
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#390
#390
GreyWolf1129 said:
Life isn't fair. You've probably heard the joke about "fair".

I suffer increased retail costs due to shoplifters. I pay too much for gas because of OPEC and domestic drilling restrictions. My auto insurance is higher because of uninsured and reckless drivers. I never see roughly 35% of my gross income thanks to runaway taxation.

It just isn't fair. It's called "life" and "reality".

Sometimes they suck. Buy a helmet.

Go Vols.
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Your trying to compare taxes, retail costs, high gas prices, and high insurance premiums, to what the NCAA did to PSU?? :blink:
 
#391
#391
Didn't read the whole thread, but whether you believe this action was within the bounds of the NCAA or not, this was really a political move. No investigation (by the NCAA), broad application of "institutional control," unprecedented penalties.... This makes Emmert and the board look like knights in shining armor. That's what this is about.
 
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#394
#394
GreyWolf1129 said:
Life isn't fair. You've probably heard the joke about "fair".

I suffer increased retail costs due to shoplifters. I pay too much for gas because of OPEC and domestic drilling restrictions. My auto insurance is higher because of uninsured and reckless drivers. I never see roughly 35% of my gross income thanks to runaway taxation.

It just isn't fair. It's called "life" and "reality".

Sometimes they suck. Buy a helmet.

Go Vols.
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How ignorant...those are all side effects we would stop if we could...here you have a clear choice, and you say, basically, "reckless drivers? I love em!"

The whole point, since this is something over which a clear choice exists is whether it SHOULD be done...and rather than defending punishing the innocent you say, "hey...life ain't fair"..that's a platitude, not a defense.

A defense would be why this was necessary vs doing nothing. What would have happened if the ncaa did nothing? Would the offenders be unpunished? Nope. Would Paterno have come out unscathed? Nope. Did PSU gain an unfair advantage? Nope. Did it make it any more likely that this would not happen again? Nope.
 
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#395
#395
Your last paragraph is an interesting question. What would have happened if the NCAA did nothing?? Of course, its all speculation now but my thoughts:

1. Paterno's reputation would still be in the trash heap.

2. The football program would be strong but not as strong as under Paterno.

3. The DOE would have gotten involved and made a very harsh punishment against PSU for violating the Clery Act. Probably not a total revocation of accreditation but maybe a very large fine.

I will be interested to see if the DOE does anything now. If they don't, then I speculate that the NCAA, the DOE, and PSU lawyers discussed this and agreed that rather than the DOE getting involved, it would be the NCAA's jurisdication.
 
#396
#396
PowerSweep said:
How ignorant...those are all side effects we would stop if we could...here you have a clear choice, and you say, basically, "reckless drivers? I love em!"

The whole point, since this is something over which a clear choice exists is whether it SHOULD be done...and rather than defending punishing the innocent you say, "hey...life ain't fair"..that's a platitude, not a defense.

A defense would be why this was necessary vs doing nothing. What would have happened if the ncaa did nothing? Would the offenders be unpunished? Nope. Would Paterno have come out unscathed? Nope. Did PSU gain an unfair advantage? Nope. Did it make it any more likely that this would not happen again? Nope.
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Then color me ignorant. I'll probably survive it.

My point is, and I probably could have worded it better, is that this type of collateral damage is inevitable when an institution is allowed to operate without effective and independent oversight.

PSU is not the last one, just the most recent.

Go Vols.
 
#397
#397
OldandStillaVol said:
I will be interested to see if the DOE does anything now. If they don't, then I speculate that the NCAA, the DOE, and PSU lawyers discussed this and agreed that rather than the DOE getting involved, it would be the NCAA's jurisdication.
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I can guarantee you, without a shred of doubt, that the DOE is completely unconcerned with the NCAA's actions.
 
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#398
#398
Disagree with the OP. This is one of the most honorable moves the NCAA has EVER made. If this was a professor at the university doing this to kids, it would have been stopped and reported to the police immediately. The only reason it was allowed to be covered up is because it was a football coach and the scandal would have cost the football team in the short run. This IS a football issue. The NCAA acted swiftly in unprecedented territory and I applaud their courage to do so. That being said, I don't think there has been much integrity in a lot of other moves they have made in punishing other schools.
 
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