The NCAA is a shameful organization.

The DOE's only interest in this will be the lack of enforcement of the Clery Act. PSU will likely get probation, and a possible fine.

I agree that DOE's interest in this is in the Clery Act. But that is a pretty important rule and one that they should take very seriously. If they DON'T give out a stiff fine, I have to believe that they are taking the NCAA penalties into account. Thus, the original hypothetical, what would happen if the NCAA did nothing? - I think the DOE would have hammered PSU very hard.
 
I agree that DOE's interest in this is in the Clery Act. But that is a pretty important rule and one that they should take very seriously. If they DON'T give out a stiff fine, I have to believe that they are taking the NCAA penalties into account. Thus, the original hypothetical, what would happen if the NCAA did nothing? - I think the DOE would have hammered PSU very hard.

You had several really good posts on this subject over the past couple of weeks. You've now gone off the reservation, and you should start thinking a bit before you hit "submit reply." Your suggestion is like saying "If the Navy Seals don't raid PSU's campus and kill the BOT, then the Department of Defense must be okay with the NCAA's actions." One has nothing to do with the other.

The DOE does not care about football, which is all the NCAA cares about. The NCAA sanctions did not hit PSU in any of the areas that the DOE would hit them. If the DOE chooses to stay out of it, it won't be because of the NCAA's actions.
 
You had several really good posts on this subject over the past couple of weeks. You've now gone off the reservation, and you should start thinking a bit before you hit "submit reply." Your suggestion is like saying "If the Navy Seals don't raid PSU's campus and kill the BOT, then the Department of Defense must be okay with the NCAA's actions." One has nothing to do with the other.

The DOE does not care about football, which is all the NCAA cares about. The NCAA sanctions did not hit PSU in any of the areas that the DOE would hit them. If the DOE chooses to stay out of it, it won't be because of the NCAA's actions.

I'll resist the temptation to comment about a bama fan talking about "thinking before you hit submit reply".

We'll have to see what the DOE says eventually. Whether they do anything or not, they'll be forced to comment on PSU's actions.
 
I'll resist the temptation to comment about a bama fan talking about "thinking before you hit submit reply".

We'll have to see what the DOE says eventually. Whether they do anything or not, they'll be forced to comment on PSU's actions.

They term "NCAA" will never be used in their comments on the issue, no matter what they choose to do.
 
Life isn't fair. You've probably heard the joke about "fair".

I suffer increased retail costs due to shoplifters. I pay too much for gas because of OPEC and domestic drilling restrictions. My auto insurance is higher because of uninsured and reckless drivers. I never see roughly 35% of my gross income thanks to runaway taxation.

It just isn't fair. It's called "life" and "reality".

Sometimes they suck. Buy a helmet.

Go Vols.

So...that makes it okay? "Life's not fair" is pretty much the worst justification you can find.
 
So...that makes it okay? "Life's not fair" is pretty much the worst justification you can find.

I have no problem with the NCAA stepping up to the plate and lowering the boom on PSU. As I said, I don't care who did it...but it needed to be done, and quickly.

I've made more than my share of mistakes, and I have paid dearly for most of them. And there were times when I suffered, among others, for the mistakes or misdeeds of those who surrounded me. No, Virginia...life is not fair.

One of the things I really like about VN is the difference of opinions that permeate this board. There are people here who are older than me; wiser than me; more educated than I; and those with far more experience relevant to whatever the topic at hand may be.

Lots of times, we just agree to disagree. It does not surprise me that such a polarizing topic as PSU would produce polarized opinions.

No, life is not fair. It never has been. To me, you, or probably anyone else on this board. And while I do have sympathy for those who had nothing to do with the PSU coverup, but will suffer because of it, the fact is that they chose to jump in the "PSU boat" when they thought it was an unsinkable ship.

Now...like those on the Titanic, they have learned a very hard, and very painful lesson.

"Life's not fair" is not my justification, it is a simply a statement of fact.

Go Vols.
 
I have no problem with the NCAA stepping up to the plate and lowering the boom on PSU. As I said, I don't care who did it...but it needed to be done, and quickly.

I've made more than my share of mistakes, and I have paid dearly for most of them. And there were times when I suffered, among others, for the mistakes or misdeeds of those who surrounded me. No, Virginia...life is not fair.

One of the things I really like about VN is the difference of opinions that permeate this board. There are people here who are older than me; wiser than me; more educated than I; and those with far more experience relevant to whatever the topic at hand may be.

Lots of times, we just agree to disagree. It does not surprise me that such a polarizing topic as PSU would produce polarized opinions.

No, life is not fair. It never has been. To me, you, or probably anyone else on this board. And while I do have sympathy for those who had nothing to do with the PSU coverup, but will suffer because of it, the fact is that they chose to jump in the "PSU boat" when they thought it was an unsinkable ship.

Now...like those on the Titanic, they have learned a very hard, and very painful lesson.

"Life's not fair" is not my justification, it is a simply a statement of fact.

Go Vols.

So, again, who is there that deserved to be punished?? Also, had they not acted, and they shouldn't have, do you think there would be more rapes happen?? It's not like the perp was in jail or anything.
 
If any of you have been keeping up with the Penn State/Sandusky saga on here, you've probably seen my numerous posts saying that the NCAA should have no authority to punish Penn State for the actions of Sandusky and Paterno and the men who covered for him and were complicit in the rape of children.

I still maintain that. If the NCAA had stuck to what its charter says, particularly the explicit parts, it shouldn't have done anything here. This is still purely a criminal justice matter.

Tomorrow, the NCAA will take a quantum leap from an organization that enforces fair play and amateurism in college athletics to one which can interject itself into purely criminal matters, and one which can issue arbitrary punishment.

Not that I like to bring in politics as a comparison, but this decision is reminiscent of President Obama bestowing upon himself the power to execute American citizens if they are deemed threats; He may well exercise that authority responsibly, but there is a far larger problem in that authority exists in the first place. Likewise, as of tomorrow the NCAA will have the authority to effectively wipe out college athletics programs as it sees fit, and by extension wipe out the economies and livelihoods of the individuals, universities and communities all over the United States that are supported by college football programs. And it can do so with no oversight and the ability to loosen its rules and bylaws as it sees fit.

I understand measures taken by the NCAA here are to correct the wrongdoings of an institution. I disagree with that premise entirely; crimes are committed by individuals. Penn State did not commit a crime, Penn State cannot be locked up in prison and Penn State cannot die of heart failure.

Yes, some people possit that these crimes were done in the name of the institution (again, I whole-heartedly disagree; they were done in the name of Joe Paterno), but punishing the instution is akin to restricting guns or violent video games in the wake of tragic outbursts like the recent one in Colorado; the step the NCAA is taking tomorrow will be overly-punitive and entirely misdirected, and the only reasoning I can fathom is to satisfy a public outcry for aimless revenge.

This point has been explained ad nauseum, but cannot be emphasized too much: the NCAA's actions will not have one iota of negative effect on those individuals responsible guilty of child rape. It could quite possibly, however, devestate the economy of central Pennsylvania of which Penn State football is the keystone.

But, now that these senseless and terrifying steps have been taken, the NCAA did the worst thing it possibly could have: stop short of the death penalty.

Emmert has deemed himself in a position to provide justice to Sandusky's victims, and to respond to the whims of the most vengeful, self-righteous voices out there.

And to balance the scales of justice, Emmert has apparently decided that a few years of bowl games and a few dozen football scholarships are of equal weight to the rape of dozens of children.

Emmert took the absolute worst possible course of action on this, to first decide that the NCAA was in a new, massively expanded and practically unaccountable authority, and then use that position to decide that a punishment usually reserved for LOIC and players getting paid off was fit.

In this whole episode, the only more vile group than Emmert and the NCAA is the former leadership of Penn State.

100%, completely disagree with everything you said. I can't believe 12 people liked that garbage.

The President and head coach kept a felony hidden from the public and the police. It has nothing to do with paying players. It has to do with a child-sex abuse cover up. And Sandusky was still granted access to the school years later.

I have absolutely 0 bad feelings for Protect Sandusky University and I do not disagree with how the NCAA came down on them. Good riddance.
 
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Best comment from ESPN.com on the PSU story (throwing Vandy under the bus, lol):


O'Brien is extremely desperate right now. He's probably telling these kids ANYTHING they will believe. "Come to Penn State! Good education and we can still play football every Saturday for the fun of it!! Can't win a championship, but we'll still play!!" If that is the best sell, they should just go to Vanderbilt.
 
100%, completely disagree with everything you said. I can't believe 12 people liked that garbage.

The President and head coach kept a felony hidden from the public and the police. It has nothing to do with paying players. It has to do with a child-sex abuse cover up. And Sandusky was still granted access to the school years later.

I have absolutely 0 bad feelings for Protect Sandusky University and I do not disagree with how the NCAA came down on them. Good riddance.

Yeah, because a few people covering up something like this, means that thousands of people deserved to be punished for what they did. Makes sense.
 
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100%, completely disagree with everything you said. I can't believe 12 people liked that garbage.

The President and head coach kept a felony hidden from the public and the police. It has nothing to do with paying players. It has to do with a child-sex abuse cover up. And Sandusky was still granted access to the school years later.

I have absolutely 0 bad feelings for Protect Sandusky University and I do not disagree with how the NCAA came down on them. Good riddance.
If you think my post was in any way a defense of Sandusky or the former leadership of Penn State, you missed the entire point.
 
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Just watched the Musbooger interview from PTI earlier, and I agreed with him strongly on two points:

1. The NCAA's announcement now has the college football world talking about "free agent players" and transfers rather than the victims.

2. The NCAA's announcement was also a purely PR-motivated unnecessary move that will start them down a very slippery slope that could be ruinous for college athletics.
 
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So, again, who is there that deserved to be punished?? Also, had they not acted, and they shouldn't have, do you think there would be more rapes happen?? It's not like the perp was in jail or anything.

All of the arguments, for and against the NCAA's actions, have been made. I happen to fall on the side of "it was the right thing to do". You obviously disagree. Neither one of us is likely to change our mind in the years to come.

For me, in very simplified logic, any institution that allows three of it's most senior officers to conceal a serial pedophile for at least 14 years is the most blatant example of "Lack of Institutional Control" I can think of.

We disagree on this one.

Go Vols.
 
Just watched the Musbooger interview from PTI earlier, and I agreed with him strongly on two points:

1. The NCAA's announcement now has the college football world talking about "free agent players" and transfers rather than the victims.

2. The NCAA's announcement was also a purely PR-motivated unnecessary move that will start them down a very slippery slope that could be ruinous for college athletics.

I saw this as well and it was a good point. While the NCAA would have you believe this move was made to help everyone get their priorities straight, all it has really done is bring more attention to the football side of things as teams around the country try to raid PSU of it's now free agent roster.
 
Let me get this straight.

- Thousands of innocent people will suffer.
- Not a single guilty individual will suffer. Oh, except for "Penn State," because it's a sentient being or something.

Totally justifiable punishment, guys!
As I stated earlier, this is always the case with NCAA sanctions. I remember everyone on this board gloating over the USC sanctions even though the current coaches and players had nothing to do with the Reggie Bush mess. Fair or not, that's the way the NCAA works.
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As I stated earlier, this is always the case with NCAA sanctions. I remember everyone on this board gloating over the USC sanctions even though the current coaches and players had nothing to do with the Reggie Bush mess. Fair or not, that's the way the NCAA works.
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At least the USC sanctions were justified, since they broke NCAA rules, not the laws of Pennsylvania.
 
100%, completely disagree with everything you said. I can't believe 12 people liked that garbage.

The President and head coach kept a felony hidden from the public and the police. It has nothing to do with paying players. It has to do with a child-sex abuse cover up. And Sandusky was still granted access to the school years later.

I have absolutely 0 bad feelings for Protect Sandusky University and I do not disagree with how the NCAA came down on them. Good riddance.

So the President and head coach (along with the AD and VP of Finance) kept a felony covered up, so everyone OTHER than them should be slammed by the NCAA? Makes sense. Oh wait, no it doesn't.
 
I saw this as well and it was a good point. While the NCAA would have you believe this move was made to help everyone get their priorities straight, all it has really done is bring more attention to the football side of things as teams around the country try to raid PSU of it's now free agent roster.

Exactly.

The NCAA, under the pretense of "de-emphasizing" football, brought the majority of the focus away from the victims back to football.
 
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At least the USC sanctions were justified, since they broke NCAA rules, not the laws of Pennsylvania.
A former DC, who still had access to the football facilties used that poisition as a ruse to lure young boys and rape them. The head coach, along with several others knew, and looked the other way.

While it may be outside the normal role of the NCAA, I have no problem with it. It's no different than Roger Godell's decision to start punising personal conduct imo.
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A former DC, who still had access to the football facilties used that poisition as a ruse to lure young boys and rape them. The head coach, along with several others knew, and looked the other way.

While it may be outside the normal role of the NCAA, I have no problem with it. It's no different than Roger Godell's decision to start punising personal conduct imo.
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Either they have a normal role, or they can do anything they chose. What would happen if they started sanctioning programs who have higher arrest rates than others?? At this point, there is nothing to stop that.
 
I have a problem with the NCAA inserting itself into a legal situation. However, I also have a problem with a BOT that sits on it's collective ass and just hopes that the situation will just go away.

I think, at least hope, that if the BOT had started taking some action (starting a fund for victims of abuse, taking themselves out of post season play, etc) the NCAA either would not have taken any action or would have taken a less severe path.
 
Either they have a normal role, or they can do anything they chose. What would happen if they started sanctioning programs who have higher arrest rates than others?? At this point, there is nothing to stop that.

UF and UGA would never play another bowl game if that happened. :)
 
Either they have a normal role, or they can do anything they chose. What would happen if they started sanctioning programs who have higher arrest rates than others?? At this point, there is nothing to stop that.
Sure there is. If the BCS conferences decided to break away there is nothing the AA can do about it.
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