The NCAA is a shameful organization.

#426
#426
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
A former DC, who still had access to the football facilties used that poisition as a ruse to lure young boys and rape them. The head coach, along with several others knew, and looked the other way.

While it may be outside the normal role of the NCAA, I have no problem with it. It's no different than Roger Godell's decision to start punising personal conduct imo.
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Equating anything to something Roger Goodell has done and then calling it a good decision is foolish IMO. If ever there were a person who just arbitrarily seized power and then promptly got drunk off that power, Roger Goodell is that person. I'm pretty sure none of us want the NCAA going down that road.
 
#427
#427
bleedorange0037 said:
Equating anything to something Roger Goodell has done and then calling it a good decision is foolish IMO. If ever there were a person who just arbitrarily seized power and then promptly got drunk off that power, Roger Goodell is that person. I'm pretty sure none of us want the NCAA going down that road.
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And I don't see the presidents allowing that to happen. If there was ever a non recruiting situation that needed to be dealt with by the NCAA this is it. If at some point 5-10 years from now the AA starts to punish teams for random non recruiting violations then I'll be concerned, but they needed to come down hard on this one. JMO.
 
#428
#428
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
And I don't see the presidents allowing that to happen. If there was ever a non recruiting situation that needed to be dealt with by the NCAA this is it. If at some point 5-10 years from now the AA starts to punish teams for random non recruiting violations then I'll be concerned, but they needed to come down hard on this one. JMO.
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I'm in agreement here.

The NCAA was in a no-win situation. If they did nothing, you'd have people complaining about how the NCAA cares more about boosters giving out $100 handshakes and coaches buying pizza for players.
 
#429
#429
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
And I don't see the presidents allowing that to happen. If there was ever a non recruiting situation that needed to be dealt with by the NCAA this is it. If at some point 5-10 years from now the AA starts to punish teams for random non recruiting violations then I'll be concerned, but they needed to come down hard on this one. JMO.
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If they felt they were obliged to act, do you find any fault with them stopping short of handing our their harshest penalty ever? IMO, they look awful for deciding that this was in their jurisdiction, yet giving a lesser punishment to PSU for letting a pedophile run wild on their campus for 10 years than they gave SMU for paying recruits. I know they saw how the death penalty destroyed SMU and were somewhat afraid to go down that road again, but you can't govern in fear.
 
#430
#430
Lawrence Wright said:
I'm in agreement here.

The NCAA was in a no-win situation. If they did nothing, you'd have people complaining about how the NCAA cares more about boosters giving out $100 handshakes and coaches buying pizza for players.
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Emmert could have simply said "I understand many of you want us to do something, but I don't need to do the Pennsylvania legal system's, federal government and FBI's jobs for them and rip our own rule book to shreds in the process."
 
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#431
#431
The NCAA is not going to have credibility until they give fans a playoff system.
 
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#434
#434
bleedorange0037 said:
If they felt they were obliged to act, do you find any fault with them stopping short of handing our their harshest penalty ever? IMO, they look awful for deciding that this was in their jurisdiction, yet giving a lesser punishment to PSU for letting a pedophile run wild on their campus for 10 years than they gave SMU for paying recruits. I know they saw how the death penalty destroyed SMU and were somewhat afraid to go down that road again, but you can't govern in fear.
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I agree
. I think it should have been the death penalty. If this case didn't warrent it, I don't see the AA ever going down that road again.
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#435
#435
#436
#436
milohimself said:
Wouldn't matter if it was Freeh himself criticizing the NCAA, everybody scrambling to be the loudest on the highest moral ground would have called him an idiot.
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So what do you think would have been an appropriate action by the NCAA?

Make sure you address the issue of the HFC, AD, and president knowing about Sandusky, and covering it up. Fact. A fact which leads to a LOIC argument.

I'm not a fan of how the NCAA does business. But I happen to think they almost got this one right. I would have shuttered the FB program for 4 years at least.

Go Vols.
 
#437
#437
GreyWolf1129 said:
So what do you think would have been an appropriate action by the NCAA?

Make sure you address the issue of the HFC, AD, and president knowing about Sandusky, and covering it up. Fact. A fact which leads to a LOIC argument.

I'm not a fan of how the NCAA does business. But I happen to think they almost got this one right. I would have shuttered the FB program for 4 years at least.

Go Vols.
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I would prefer they conduct their own investigation on the matter, draw their own conclusions based on their investigation, and follow their stated process for administering penalties based on their conclusions. There was/is no reason for a rush to judgement other than appeasing the masses best I can tell.
 
#438
#438
95 Vol Alum said:
I would prefer they conduct their own investigation on the matter, draw their own conclusions based on their investigation, and follow their stated process for administering penalties based on their conclusions. There was/is no reason for a rush to judgement other than appeasing the masses best I can tell.
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And what would they have learned that wasn't in the Freeh report?
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#439
#439
GreyWolf1129 said:
So what do you think would have been an appropriate action by the NCAA?

Make sure you address the issue of the HFC, AD, and president knowing about Sandusky, and covering it up. Fact. A fact which leads to a LOIC argument.

I'm not a fan of how the NCAA does business. But I happen to think they almost got this one right. I would have shuttered the FB program for 4 years at least.

Go Vols.
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1. As has been mentioned, I believe this may be the first time the NCAA has ever handed out sanctions without conducting an investigation. Whether or not you think it was right in penalizing Penn State, it is absolute fact that they threw out their own rule book with this decision. That in and of itself should be worrisome.

2. In the NCAA's own words, a specific violation that's on the books must have occurred for LOIC to have happened.

3. The legal system is already dealing with everybody who was in a position to turn Sandusky over to the authorities. If you think institutional punishment should have occurred, the Clery Act would have handled that.

4. For the sake of argument, say I agreed the NCAA should have taken action without conducting an investigation, why not the death penalty? What they did will already be damaging to central PA, why should covering up child rape receive less punishment that giving amateur football players envelopes stuffed with cash?

To summarize, the NCAA destroyed its own rule book, took on massive new authority over public institutions to which it is accountable to nobody, let Baylor slide for covering up MURDER among other previous incidents at other schools, and all to cover their own ass purely from a PR standpoint when the legal system was already in a place to cover all those bases.

Let me be perfectly clear, for me, it was the way in which they went about what they did as much as the fact that they did it in the first place. I don't think there are many people who fully grasp the potential threat to college athletics as a whole from the NCAA's actions.
 
#441
#441
milohimself said:
The point is that the NCAA just made themselves an arm of the justice system while simultaneously taking a giant s**t all over any semblance of any notion of procedure or due process.
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Although I can see where the NCAA would accept the conclusions of the Freeh report, and thus take action based on that, I agree with you that there was no due process. I also agree that the NCAA took action that was outside their scope of authority.

I also happen to think that this was an extraordinary situation which required extraordinary action. If you're waiting on, or counting on, the Justice Department to do the right thing, well...I hope you brought a Snickers bar.

The PSU scandal demanded swift, decisive action, and the NCAA took it. And I agree with you that the death penalty should have been invoked, for at least 4 years.

In this case, the end justifies the means. I may be wrong, but that's where I stand on it.

Thanks for a well-written response. Far too few of those around here on this topic.

Go Vols.
 
#442
#442
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
And what would they have learned that wasn't in the Freeh report?
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I couldn't tell you since it hasn't been done. The Freeh team was not able to interview all parties, specifically the accused and key witnesses. As a result, they didn't get full context of some of the documents they reviewed.

FTR, I don't mean to suggest none of this happened or that the Freeh report would be found inaccurate in its conclusions. I am saying that NCAA should use its process before handing out arguably one of its stiffest punishments ever in spite of the populist opinion for swift judgement.
 
#443
#443
milohimself said:
In this whole episode, the only more vile group than Emmert and the NCAA is the former leadership of Penn State.
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Milo, I shortened what I quoted to save space. I agree with you 100%. The problem is this is much like politics. When the populace is willing to give ANYONE the power to punish in the name of right, then we no longer have any rights. A court should step in and slap the living crap out of the NCAA and explain to them that their responsibility is the student athlete and not dispensing justice in areas that don't belong to them.

If they can get away with this, then Saban and Bama should be shaking in their shoes.
 
#444
#444
GreyWolf1129 said:
Although I can see where the NCAA would accept the conclusions of the Freeh report, and thus take action based on that, I agree with you that there was no due process. I also agree that the NCAA took action that was outside their scope of authority.

I also happen to think that this was an extraordinary situation which required extraordinary action. If you're waiting on, or counting on, the Justice Department to do the right thing, well...I hope you brought a Snickers bar.

The PSU scandal demanded swift, decisive action, and the NCAA took it. And I agree with you that the death penalty should have been invoked, for at least 4 years.

In this case, the end justifies the means. I may be wrong, but that's where I stand on it.

Thanks for a well-written response. Far too few of those around here on this topic.

Go Vols.
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Regardless of circumstance, the NCAA shouldn't ever step out of its own bounds. It sets bad precedent and gives the NCAA further authority to take actions that it shouldn't.

The justice system couldn't have acted as swiftly, but that's for good reason, because we live in a country that's relatively excellent at punishing people who need to be punished. And it would have come. Will come.

The costs of the NCAA taking action far outweigh even the most optimistic perceived benefits.
 
#445
#445
GreyWolf1129 said:
Although I can see where the NCAA would accept the conclusions of the Freeh report, and thus take action based on that, I agree with you that there was no due process. I also agree that the NCAA took action that was outside their scope of authority.

I also happen to think that this was an extraordinary situation which required extraordinary action. If you're waiting on, or counting on, the Justice Department to do the right thing, well...I hope you brought a Snickers bar.

The PSU scandal demanded swift, decisive action, and the NCAA took it. And I agree with you that the death penalty should have been invoked, for at least 4 years.

In this case, the end justifies the means. I may be wrong, but that's where I stand on it.

Thanks for a well-written response. Far too few of those around here on this topic.

Go Vols.
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Greywolf, when you are accused of child molestation or something equally heinous, I will make sure to look you up and dispense my own justice on you because it calls for swift and decisive action instead due process. I am not saying this to be mean, I am just trying to make an analogy that hits close to home.
 
#446
#446
milohimself said:
Regardless of circumstance, the NCAA shouldn't ever step out of its own bounds. It sets bad precedent and gives the NCAA further authority to take actions that it shouldn't.

The justice system couldn't have acted as swiftly, but that's for good reason, because we live in a country that's relatively excellent at punishing people who need to be punished. And it would have come. Will come.

The costs of the NCAA taking action far outweigh even the most optimistic perceived benefits.
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If you really believe that, then you have no idea how the criminal justice system works.

Ask any cop or prosecuting attorney about our "excellent system", and see what they say.

Go Vols.
 
#447
#447
TNGlen said:
Greywolf, when you are accused of child molestation or something equally heinous, I will make sure to look you up and dispense my own justice on you because it calls for swift and decisive action instead due process. I am not saying this to be mean, I am just trying to make an analogy that hits close to home.
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And as for you, Chuckles...I won't ever be accused of child molestation, or anything equally heinous, for one very simple reason. I don't do it.

Your post, and your logic, are so flawed that I cannot find any link between my post and yours, other than the possibility that something I said hit close to home with you.

You do that. Look me up. Bring your justice. Swift and decisive action will surely follow.

Do me a favor, put me on your ignore list. I'm not saying this to be mean, I just don't care to ever exchange posts with you again.

Go Vols.
 
#448
#448
GreyWolf1129 said:
If you really believe that, then you have no idea how the criminal justice system works.

Ask any cop or prosecuting attorney about our "excellent system", and see what they say.

Go Vols.
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This may be true, but I imagine the court system has a MUCH higher success rate of punishing the guilty than the NCAA does. The NCAA's success rate might not be 0%, but it's pretty damn close.
 
#449
#449
GreyWolf1129 said:
And as for you, Chuckles...I won't ever be accused of child molestation, or anything equally heinous, for one very simple reason. I don't do it.

Your post, and your logic, are so flawed that I cannot find any link between my post and yours, other than the possibility that something I said hit close to home with you.

You do that. Look me up. Bring your justice. Swift and decisive action will surely follow.

Do me a favor, put me on your ignore list. I'm not saying this to be mean, I just don't care to ever exchange posts with you again.

Go Vols.
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His logic wasn't really that flawed. What the NCAA did was very similar to the vigilante justice he described. Just because someone commits a heinous crime doesn't automatically compel some random person or organization to go out and carry out whatever punishment they see fit. That's the responsibility of the courts.
 
#450
#450
milohimself said:
Regardless of circumstance, the NCAA shouldn't ever step out of its own bounds. It sets bad precedent and gives the NCAA further authority to take actions that it shouldn't.

The justice system couldn't have acted as swiftly, but that's for good reason, because we live in a country that's relatively excellent at punishing people who need to be punished. And it would have come. Will come.

The costs of the NCAA taking action far outweigh even the most optimistic perceived benefits.
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milo, we just disagree on the NCAA's actions. For the most part, I consider you to be a mature, and well-reasoned poster. We're just going to have to disagree on this one, so I'll leave it alone from here on.

I do enjoy the "counterpoint", but like you, I have my mind made up on this one.

Go Vols.
 
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