The NCAA is a shameful organization.

#452
#452
bleedorange0037 said:
His logic wasn't really that flawed. What the NCAA did was very similar to the vigilante justice he described. Just because someone commits a heinous crime doesn't automatically compel some random person or organization to go out and carry out whatever punishment they see fit. That's the responsibility of the courts.
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I couldn't see past the veiled threat.

I have a conditioned response to threats. It's a character flaw.

Go Vols.
 
#453
#453
GreyWolf1129 said:
If you really believe that, then you have no idea how the criminal justice system works.

Ask any cop or prosecuting attorney about our "excellent system", and see what they say.

Go Vols.
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Fair enough if you disagree...

As for the comment I made, I said relative to others. There are many aspects that suck, but what we have a damn sight better than most of the rest of the planet.
 
#454
#454
milohimself said:
Fair enough if you disagree...

As for the comment I made, I said relative to others. There are many aspects that suck, but what we have a damn sight better than most of the rest of the planet.
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I agree. Its not great but it's better than anywhere else. I think we have outsmarted ourselves in a lot of ways, but that's another topic.
 
#455
#455
GreyWolf1129 said:
If you really believe that, then you have no idea how the criminal justice system works.

Ask any cop or prosecuting attorney about our "excellent system", and see what they say.

Go Vols.
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GreyWolf1129 said:
And as for you, Chuckles...I won't ever be accused of child molestation, or anything equally heinous, for one very simple reason. I don't do it.

Your post, and your logic, are so flawed that I cannot find any link between my post and yours, other than the possibility that something I said hit close to home with you.

You do that. Look me up. Bring your justice. Swift and decisive action will surely follow.

Do me a favor, put me on your ignore list. I'm not saying this to be mean, I just don't care to ever exchange posts with you again.

Go Vols.
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Yeah, you completely missed the word "analogy". Your response to my analogy must be closer to home than you realize. And yes, the NCAA is hitting close to home to me and should be hitting close to home for ANY freedom loving person that is concerned about an organization that has little or no authority to proscecute a punishment doing so without due process. That was simply my analogy. You being PSU and me being the NCAA coming to your house and punishing you without due process. Really kinda simple unless you are so angered and anti-PSU that you have blinders on. There is a due process in this country. It PROTECTS the innocent and "generally" punishes the criminals. I feel that in this case, the "defendants" don't stand a chance. The maximum penalty will be handed out to all of them and the appeal process will be never ending. Hand this been the swim coach or some other "minor" sport, we would never had heard of it. Let me ask this a different way, if a retired NCO had come back on base and done this to someone, would his old unit have been punished if no one in that unit was even remotely involved in it? I just don't know how to express my incredulity that so many on here are so willing to give an organization like the NCAA who have really no bearing on this as this didn't affect the first student athlete full kudo's for slapping a university program this hard. They have created a whole set of collateral damage that will echo at PSU for decades and have not solved a single thing in doing so. As everyone likes to say, this is an isolated and special incident, if it is isolated and special then it isn't happening at other institutions. If it isn't happening, then their punishment does nothing. It is truly a travesty of justice, or lack of.
 
#456
#456
MrBamSeydu said:
100%, completely disagree with everything you said. I can't believe 12 people liked that garbage.

The President and head coach kept a felony hidden from the public and the police. It has nothing to do with paying players. It has to do with a child-sex abuse cover up. And Sandusky was still granted access to the school years later.

I have absolutely 0 bad feelings for Protect Sandusky University and I do not disagree with how the NCAA came down on them. Good riddance.
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It's folks like you that can't see the forest for the bark on the trees that shouldn't enter discussions like this. This discussion has not the first f'ing thing to do with Sandusky or his protection. It has to do with a governing body that has QUESTIONABLE jurisdiction over a small part of PSU laying down an unprecedented punishment without due process. I hope that you never have to actually learn what the term "due process" means. And just in case you think you do, it has nothing to do with the process by which the grass gets wet in the morning.
 
#457
#457
GreyWolf1129 said:
All of the arguments, for and against the NCAA's actions, have been made. I happen to fall on the side of "it was the right thing to do". You obviously disagree. Neither one of us is likely to change our mind in the years to come.

For me, in very simplified logic, any institution that allows three of it's most senior officers to conceal a serial pedophile for at least 14 years is the most blatant example of "Lack of Institutional Control" I can think of.
We disagree on this one.

Go Vols.
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The ONLY reason you agree is because of whom two of the three happen to be. What if this had been purely academic? The "Lack of Institutional Control" would still exist. So using your logic, the NCAA should still have jumped in and hammered the FB program? Just because the officers that you speak of "worked" in the AD, doesn't mean what went on had the first thing to do with student athletes. You make our point and then still deny that we have one.
 
#458
#458
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
As I stated earlier, this is always the case with NCAA sanctions that have to do with student athletes. I remember everyone on this board gloating over the USC sanctions even though the current coaches and players had nothing to do with the Reggie Bush mess. Fair or not, that's the way the NCAA works.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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fyp
 
#459
#459
bamawriter said:
Exactly.

The NCAA, under the pretense of "de-emphasizing" football, brought the majority of the focus away from the victims back to football.
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Only the ignorant would believe that it would have done anything different. Those PSU players and current coaches are standing up in drooves speaking publicly about how the NCAA struck a devastating blow for child abuse! If anyone thinks that this will make the PSU FB team any less rabid about winning, you are smoking crack.
 
#460
#460
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
A former DC, who still had access to the football facilties used that poisition as a ruse to lure young boys and rape them. The head coach, along with several others knew, and looked the other way.

While it may be outside the normal role of the NCAA, I have no problem with it. It's no different than Roger Godell's decision to start punising personal conduct imo.
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Yeah, there is that little thing called a contract and the players union and all that. But let's not let that stand in the way of the vigilantes. And oh yeah, exactly which one of the players was actually involved in this? Could you remind me of that?
 
#461
#461
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
And I don't see the presidents allowing that to happen. If there was ever a non recruiting situation that needed to be dealt with by the NCAA this is it. If at some point 5-10 years from now the AA starts to punish teams for random non recruiting violations then I'll be concerned, but they needed to come down hard on this one. JMO.
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4 words: The Door Is Open.
 
#462
#462
Lawrence Wright said:
I'm in agreement here.

The NCAA was in a no-win situation. If they did nothing, you'd have people complaining about how the NCAA cares more about boosters giving out $100 handshakes and coaches buying pizza for players.
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All the NCAA had to say was that they would wait until the trials and sentencing were over to make their decisions. Basically say that they did not feel correct in wading into a legal proceeding to make a judgment on the student athletes. Very simple. Make that statement and they are cleared at least until ALL the facts come out and witnesses are interviewed. Then they can carry on their own investigation (called due process) and do what they feel is correct, if anything.
 
#463
#463
milohimself said:
1. As has been mentioned, I believe this may be the first time the NCAA has ever handed out sanctions without conducting an investigation. Whether or not you think it was right in penalizing Penn State, it is absolute fact that they threw out their own rule book with this decision. That in and of itself should be worrisome.

2. In the NCAA's own words, a specific violation that's on the books must have occurred for LOIC to have happened.

3. The legal system is already dealing with everybody who was in a position to turn Sandusky over to the authorities. If you think institutional punishment should have occurred, the Clery Act would have handled that.

4. For the sake of argument, say I agreed the NCAA should have taken action without conducting an investigation, why not the death penalty? What they did will already be damaging to central PA, why should covering up child rape receive less punishment that giving amateur football players envelopes stuffed with cash?

To summarize, the NCAA destroyed its own rule book, took on massive new authority over public institutions to which it is accountable to nobody, let Baylor slide for covering up MURDER among other previous incidents at other schools, and all to cover their own ass purely from a PR standpoint when the legal system was already in a place to cover all those bases.

Let me be perfectly clear, for meand many of us, it was the way in which they went about what they did as much as the fact that they did it in the first place. I don't think there are many people who fully grasp the potential threat to college athletics as a whole from the NCAA's actions.
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Can't be said better.
 
#464
#464
GreyWolf1129 said:
I couldn't see past the veiled threat.

I have a conditioned response to threats. It's a character flaw.

Go Vols.
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There was no veiled threat. Get your feelings off your sleeve and open your eyes. An analogy that harsh many times has to be used to open the eyes of those that "have their minds made up". I have nothing against you and agree with you 99% of the time over on the FB threads. That is why I felt comfortable making that analogy. I will take that into account in my future responses.:hi:
 
#465
#465
TNGlen said:
There was no veiled threat. Get your feelings off your sleeve and open your eyes. An analogy that harsh many times has to be used to open the eyes of those that "have their minds made up". I have nothing against you and agree with you 99% of the time over on the FB threads. That is why I felt comfortable making that analogy. I will take that into account in my future responses.:hi:
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Unapology accepted.

Man, you tore it up this morning.

The PSU scandal, much like the Dooley debate, has polarized VN. Go figure.

The funny thing is, and I'm as guilty as anyone else here, is that we make our own passionate, supposedly well-reasoned arguments for our particular stance...knowing full well that we are not going to change a single mind on here. And yet we still try.

We're cool. I just have this thing where, when I think I see a threat, I just have to go confront it. Long story, and this is no place for it.

We can disagree on PSU, and/or Dooley, and still be Vol fans. I'm okay with that.

Go Vols.
 
#466
#466
TNGlen said:
Yeah, there is that little thing called a contract and the players union and all that. But let's not let that stand in the way of the vigilantes. And oh yeah, exactly which one of the players was actually involved in this? Could you remind me of that?
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The same as the number of current USC players that were involved in the Reggie Bush mess. As I've said, that's te nature of AA sanctions.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#468
#468
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
Yes, but membership in the NCAA is voluntary. If they get out of hand there is nothing they could do if the BCS conferences told them to go straight to hell.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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I've been expecting something like this since before the Penn State scandal broke. But I also expect it will include a move away from amateurism, which you may or may not be for but it surely won't be college football anymore.
 
#469
#469
milohimself said:
I've been expecting something like this since before the Penn State scandal broke. But I also expect it will include a move away from amateurism, which you may or may not be for but it surely won't be college football anymore.
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Oh I agree it would be bad for college football. I was just ponting out that the option is there if the NCAA gets to heavy handed.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#472
#472
Gucci-Mane-dis-gon-be-good-eccbc87e4b5ce2fe28308fd9f2a7baf3-810.gif
 
#474
#474
95 Vol Alum said:
And here we go:

Penn State Nittany Lions -- Trustees appeal to NCAA, vow federal lawsuit - ESPN

The lawyering game is afoot.
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If Penn State, via their trustees, or even the Paterno family, screws around with this and pushes the issue...

...then look for the NCAA to do their own investigation, and slam the door on PSU football for 4, or more, years.

("Go ahead...skin that smokewagon and see what happens")

When this is all said and done...when the final note is finally played...PSU is going to rue the day they placed that much blind trust in Paterno, the AD, and the university president.

And rightfully so.

Go Vols.
 
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