The NCAA is a shameful organization.

#176
#176
I guess shame is relative but gauge NCAA's shame against PSU's.
 
#177
#177
BOBeLITE said:
People who say that the NCAA had no dog in the fight are idiots... They had every right to enforce what sanctions they saw fit. The previous Faculty LIED and covered up CHILD RAPE TO PROTECT THE FOOTBALL PROGRAM!!! what part of that do you guys not understand. IF you don't penalize them, THEN THEY WON! They got away with covering up child rape. They protected Penn St. football and knowingly let kids get raped continuously... They penalties are pretty much self inflicted.. They agreed with the NCAA to accept these penalties!!!!!
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If by "got away with covering up child rape" you mean "went to prison/died before they could be sent to prison/had to pay hundreds of millions in settlements" then I'm right there with you.
 
#178
#178
milohimself said:
Tomorrow, the NCAA will take a quantum leap from an organization that enforces fair play and amateurism in college athletics to one which can interject itself into purely criminal matters, and one which can issue arbitrary punishment.
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The NCAA was forced to get involved because the original DA decided it was more important to skip town. And later Tom Corbett decided it was more important to run for governor. If the NCAA didn't step in then no one would have.

"Not only that, but Corbett’s gubernatorial staff approved—yes, approved—a $3 million grant to Second Mile, the foundation for kids that, according to the grand jury, served as a repository for potential sex-abuse victims. Corbett knew about the grant and let it through last July for reasons that seem absurd."
 
#179
#179
WiseOlVol said:
can someone explain with what jursidiction the NCAA presumes to mete out these penalties?

they didn't conduct their own investigation and didn't interview Paterno himself.

the victims will get $millions in civil damages vs. PSU, PSU and paterno have lost a 50-year legacy and Sandusky will die in jail.

looks like grandstanding to me.
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On Penn State's authority, they agreed to it. This is a plea deal. Penn State could have fought this but it would have resulted in the NCAA launching a full investigation on campus for years with the death penalty hanging out there at the end. Every BCS program would probably have enough violations that the NCAA could hammer them if the NCAA actually took the time to investigate. This is probably the best outcome Penn State could hope for.
 
#180
#180
vols-1 said:
The NCAA was forced to get involved because the original DA decided it was more important to skip town. And later Tom Corbett decided it was more important to run for governor. If the NCAA didn't step in then no one would have.
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Guys are going to prison! How is the NCAA making up for the failures of the '98 investigation?
 
#181
#181
I would agree with the op if this had not been completely covered up and made into a scandal by the leaders of the football program and the school. And while the penalties levied will never make up for what happened, it would be more egrigious not to punish the program. Sandusky spending his life in jail wont make up for the pain he caused but that didnt keep him from being sentenced. It was a step in the right direction. The ncaa is punishing psu for allowing a culture to permeate the school and community that gave birth to the idea that their football program was more important than stopping a child rapist. Just because joe paterno wasnt providing players with illegal benefits doesn't make him a bastion of moral fortitude and it doesnt mean he or the university were beyond reproach. That is the kind of thinking that led to their situation. The children, whose lives were destroyed by sandusky and those who allowed him to prey upon them, are the only victims here. Do not weep for penn state.
 
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#182
#182
bamawriter said:
If by "got away with covering up child rape" you mean "went to prison/died before they could be sent to prison/had to pay hundreds of millions in settlements" then I'm right there with you.
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No I mean the faculty covered up to protect their own personal interest and the interest of the football program. I know that they will all get punished accordingly with the law but if the football program is not punished at all then they got away with it.. Their plan worked... I know it's not fair to the people there now but it had to be done...
 
#183
#183
chattavfl86 said:
I would agree with the op if this had not been completely covered up and made into a scandal by the leaders of the football program and the school. And while the penalties levied will never make up for what happened, it would be more egrigious not to punish the program. Sandusky spending his life in jail wont make up for the pain he caused but that didnt keep him from being sentenced. It was a step in the right direction. The ncaa is punishing psu for allowing a culture to permeate the school and community that gave birth to the idea that their football program was more important than stopping a child rapist. Just because joe paterno wasnt providing players with illegal benefits doesn't make him a bastion of moral fortitude and it doesnt mean he or the university were beyond reproach. That is the kind of thinking that led to their situation. The children, whose lives were destroyed by sandusky and those who allowed him to prey upon them, are the only victims here. Do not weep for penn state.
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How do you know their "lives were destroyed"? I'm quite sure that for most if not all it was pretty impactful in a negative way but that's over the top for goodness sakes...

Does it make sense that a monetary settlement is not going to take away the pain but this to Penn St will? I just don't see that logically.
 
#185
#185
allvol123 said:
One, it isnt't. Explain to me how covering up child molestation gave PSU some competitive advantage. It is a criminal matter, not a NCAA matter.

Two, if you believe it is a NCAA matter then you should be livid they are not shutting down the program.
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Technically the cover-up gave them the advantages of this not coming out years ago and hurting the program..... therefore the argument that this was done for football. There is an old saying, show me who your friends are and I'll tell you who you are. The main reasons for this cover-up are simple... not in any particular order...

1. Protect the football program
2. Protect Paternos legacy
3. Protect University Prestige
4. Protect the income!

So what has the NCAA done here? The football program is now severely unprotected. Paternos legacy is altered completely from a year ago. The university is certainly less prestigious from the eye test prospective. And the wallet took a hit as well!

I applaud the NCAA for their stance here. Sometimes you have to go above and beyond the rules and regulations.

@ the OP- The fact is that the University is at fault! If I were an investment banker and stole millions from you and my company heads knew but didn't say anything, then as I get busted, my conspirators are ousted and replaced immediately... does that mean that the company isn't liable as a whole and subject to punishment? We and by we I mean most have often said college football these days are a business, well if its run like a business and treat it like one even when it comes to punishments.

I do feel bad for the innocent fans, and folks in PA that have Penn State in their hearts. But what happened today was some form of justice and I agree with it. Fact is, had the men who needed to step up, actually stepped up... the penalties and harm could have been minimized, when the Penn State football program and factors stated earlier were put before those kids well-being, that's when it becomes a valid punishment in the harshest degree. Like I've stated, the fans, players, students, and faculty should not have to go thru this punishment as they did nothing wrong... but as a whole the university did, the universities leaders did, and for those transgressions, knowing that children where directly and deliberately harmed to protect a game, a sport, and a team is morally wrong, ethically wrong, and in my opinion its just damn sickening. My 2 cents!
 
#188
#188
slimjim85vols said:
Technically the cover-up gave them the advantages of this not coming out years ago and hurting the program..... therefore the argument that this was done for football. There is an old saying, show me who your friends are and I'll tell you who you are. The main reasons for this cover-up are simple... not in any particular order...

1. Protect the football program
2. Protect Paternos legacy
3. Protect University Prestige
4. Protect the income!

So what has the NCAA done here? The football program is now severely unprotected. Paternos legacy is altered completely from a year ago. The university is certainly less prestigious from the eye test prospective. And the wallet took a hit as well!

I applaud the NCAA for their stance here. Sometimes you have to go above and beyond the rules and regulations.

@ the OP- The fact is that the University is at fault! If I were an investment banker and stole millions from you and my company heads knew but didn't say anything, then as I get busted, my conspirators are ousted and replaced immediately... does that mean that the company isn't liable as a whole and subject to punishment? We and by we I mean most have often said college football these days are a business, well if its run like a business and treat it like one even when it comes to punishments.

I do feel bad for the innocent fans, and folks in PA that have Penn State in their hearts. But what happened today was some form of justice and I agree with it. Fact is, had the men who needed to step up, actually stepped up... the penalties and harm could have been minimized, when the Penn State football program and factors stated earlier were put before those kids well-being, that's when it becomes a valid punishment in the harshest degree. Like I've stated, the fans, players, students, and faculty should not have to go thru this punishment as they did nothing wrong... but as a whole the university did, the universities leaders did, and for those transgressions, knowing that children where directly and deliberately harmed to protect a game, a sport, and a team is morally wrong, ethically wrong, and in my opinion its just damn sickening. My 2 cents!
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In the case above you would be made as whole as possible in civil court which is where this belongs. And I find the idea that this would have hurt recruiting to have had a coach that had been retired 3-4 yrs earlier involved in criminality to be silly...for goodness sakes they have a top 15 class now in circumstances that are 100x worse than they would have been then.
 
#192
#192
VolBeef88 said:
That's not what my response was about. However as I've stated member organizations have the right to enforce moral and character clauses.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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You still haven't explained why Emmert did not reference a moral or character clause in his statement, nor the NCAA in their press release.
 
#193
#193
bamawriter said:
And that has what to do with the head of the campus police, who only knew of the '98 incident, and had nothing to do with the coverup?
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What we know for sure is that the Prez, VP, AD and Head Coach knew and headed up the cover up for at least 14 years.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#196
#196
VolBeef88 said:
He mentioned moral and character reasons in his presser.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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That's not how he framed the issue:

"While there's been much speculation about whether this fits this specific bylaw or that specific bylaw, it certainly hits the fundamental values of what athletics are supposed to be doing in the context of higher education."

So it's not against any "specific bylaw." But you've argued numerous times that the character clause was a bylaw.
 
#197
#197
PowerSweep said:
In the case above you would be made as whole as possible in civil court which is where this belongs. And I find the idea that this would have hurt recruiting to have had a coach that had been retired 3-4 yrs earlier involved in criminality to be silly...for goodness sakes they have a top 15 class now in circumstances that are 100x worse than they would have been then.
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They have a top 15 class now... I bet that changes! And Sandusky was still DC when the first transgression happened! He was seen by a GA doing it and nothing was done. That is hardly 3-4 years prior. In the case above, the company is liable too, just as in this case. The university was a safe haven for molesting children and frankly just knowing that I wouldn't care if Beaver stadium burnt to the ground.

Plain and simple this was done to protect the football program.... so if the program is not punished, then at the end of the day, they were successful, arrested, charged, convicted, or dead... they still would have been perceived to have protected the program as no harm was done to the program.

And yes it would have hurt recruiting, negative recruiting would have been rampant (just like its about to kick up a notch now), I'm sure there would have been players not pick Penn State knowing now what they didn't know then, and could have possibly hurt win-loss records... resulting in perhaps less $ they took in from bowls etc. They cheated the other teams they played (whether in conference or out), they cheated their conference, they cheated those kids childhoods, and last but not least they cheated their Penn State family as well. Everyday they didn't report this, they were a dirty program, everyday they went home to. Their homes and families knowing what that monster did to those and was still doing was dirty, and anyone try to say poor pitiful Penn State football program right now is dirty because wasn't nobody giving a damn about those kids when they needed to, so I sure as hell don't care what happens to the football program now.
 
#198
#198
PowerSweep said:
How do you know their "lives were destroyed"? I'm quite sure that for most if not all it was pretty impactful in a negative way but that's over the top for goodness sakes...

Does it make sense that a monetary settlement is not going to take away the pain but this to Penn St will? I just don't see that logically.
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Impactful in a negative way? Thats more of an understatement than my comment was over the top. How would i know their lives were destroyed? My father was sexually abused as a child. Thats how i know how it can affect the victims of this crime. It took him until he was in his thirties to even be able to talk about it, and thats because the man who abused him died. He has told me that he feels like what happened to him destroyed the person he could have been and instead he has to live as someone who was forced to have to spend his life knowing what happened to him. Being exposed to the horrors of the world so young destroys the life these children would have otherwise lived.

And no punishment levied against penn state, sandusky, or anyone else involved will ever be enough to make up for what happened. Does that mean no one should be punished? If someone commits murder and is sentenced to life in prison it doesnt bring back the person they killed, but that doesnt mean you let the murderer go. Even if nothing you do would ever make it right, you still have to do something. Inaction isnt the answer.
 
#199
#199
vols-1 said:
The NCAA was forced to get involved because the original DA decided it was more important to skip town. And later Tom Corbett decided it was more important to run for governor. If the NCAA didn't step in then no one would have.

"Not only that, but Corbett’s gubernatorial staff approved—yes, approved—a $3 million grant to Second Mile, the foundation for kids that, according to the grand jury, served as a repository for potential sex-abuse victims. Corbett knew about the grant and let it through last July for reasons that seem absurd."
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Skip town? LMAO Its pretty damn clear Ray Gricar was murdered.
 
#200
#200
slimjim85vols said:
They have a top 15 class now... I bet that changes! And Sandusky was still DC when the first transgression happened! He was seen by a GA doing it and nothing was done. That is hardly 3-4 years prior. In the case above, the company is liable too, just as in this case. The university was a safe haven for molesting children and frankly just knowing that I wouldn't care if Beaver stadium burnt to the ground.
Click to expand...

You are crossing up two different incidents. The '98 incident did occur while Sandusky was still DC, but there were no witnesses. The child's mother contacted the police. There was an investigation, but no charges were filed.

The GA, Mike McQueary, witnessed the 2001 incident. That's when the coverup began.
 
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