The Numbers Thread

#1,176
#1,176
Diceman said:
Handful from each class. Thought you would figure that out on your own.
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So far it's 16 over the last 2 years. Long way to go before we see the final attrition numbers for the past few classes. Imo, doesn't look good compared to the rest of the SEC.
 
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#1,177
#1,177
LebanonVolunteer said:
LWS posted some numbers in the FF.

Past 2 years UT has had 16 kids leave the program. Bama had 5.

Another comparison: AR lost 6, UK 3, AU 3, VU 4. All having coaching changes.
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Because Bama has completed their rebuild, and are no longer flipping the roster. AR, UK, and VU are the only others that had head coaching changes, and I wouldn't trade our roster for any of theirs. Not sure that was the best argument.
 
#1,179
#1,179
Diceman said:
Because Bama has completed their rebuild, and are no longer flipping the roster. AR, UK, and VU are the only others that had head coaching changes, and I wouldn't trade our roster for any of theirs. Not sure that was the best argument.
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My response was to those who said Bama leads the nation in attrition. Clearly, that's not the case currently.

Adding ALL the attrition from 4 other SEC schools(who had coaching changes) including AU over the past 2 years equals what UT has had by itself. Imo, glaring stat.
 
#1,180
#1,180
Diceman said:
And with the number of players being signed, that's necessary to stay within the 85 limit. Not sure what your point is.
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If they were not so fixated on over signing, they wouldn't have an issue with the 85.

Seeing Bruce, Perry, and Young all having to be forward counted to 2016 tells me this over signing will not be ending any time soon.

I'd expect to see UT leading the SEC in attrition this coming year as well.
 
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#1,181
#1,181
LebanonVolunteer said:
If they were not so fixated on over signing, they wouldn't have an issue with the 85.

Seeing Bruce, Perry, and Young all having to be forward counted to 2016 tells me this over signing will not be ending any time soon.

I'd expect to see UT leading the SEC in attrition this coming year as well.
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Right, and as I and others have been saying that isn't a problem. We've mentioned the reasons and the merit, and you say again and again that they're over signing and will have attrition. Nothing new is being said, and you seem to know more than everyone else including the coaching staff, so I guess I'll leave it at that and hop to a different part of the site so as to quit going around and around about the same thing.

Edit: The "fixation" on over signing is to put the best product on the field as quickly as possible. There isn't an issue with the 85 limit. It's not a bad thing to have some attrition. There's a certain amount necessary if you want to have a great program. It's as if you think the staff is just being all willy nilly about their very livelihoods, and are just doing this for no reason at all.
 
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#1,183
#1,183
Diceman said:
Right, and as I and others have been saying that isn't a problem. We've mentioned the reasons and the merit, and you say again and again that they're over signing and will have attrition. Nothing new is being said, and you seem to know more than everyone else including the coaching staff, so I guess I'll leave it at that and hop to a different part of the site so as to quit going around and around about the same thing.

Edit: The "fixation" on over signing is to put the best product on the field as quickly as possible. There isn't an issue with the 85 limit. It's not a bad thing to have some attrition. There's a certain amount necessary if you want to have a great program. It's as if you think the staff is just being all willy nilly about their very livelihoods, and are just doing this for no reason at all.
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This staff knows what they are doing regarding recruiting and numbers game, that doesn't concern me at all. I look for UT to have a highly rated (top 10) class each season, and I haven't seen a staff at UT that recruits to their needs as well as these guys do since the early to mid 90's.

I'm more concerned with the conservative play calling in close games, I really hope the new guy is a much better play caller than the last guy.
 
#1,184
#1,184
LebanonVolunteer said:
So far it's 16 over the last 2 years. Long way to go before we see the final attrition numbers for the past few classes. Imo, doesn't look good compared to the rest of the SEC.
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That's not bad when you consider UT has signed at least 60 players in the last two classes. I would be concerned if they had only signed 44 in two years like they did under Dooley.
 
#1,186
#1,186
I have zero problems with attrition if it's players that aren't "quality depth" to begin with. In my definition, "quality depth" is: having players that want to compete for a position, and that can add some substance when they come on the field.

So far, seemingly, every person we have lost has been a person who didn't want to compete, or who couldn't provide that substance when they came on the field.

There's been a few that I've been sad to see go, as I thought that they would eventually find some playing time (Vic Wharton, namely), but....I'm also not lividly angry over anyone who has left either.

I don't really care what our numbers are. Kids are wanting to come play, and if they're wanting to come compete, and they're talented enough to make us an overall more deeper football team, then let them stay. If not, fill their spot. It's a business, and you've gotta be cutthroat about it to get to where we as fans expect to be.
 
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#1,187
#1,187
AllVolinGA said:
http://www.volnation.com/forum/tennessee-vols-football/235559-fyi.html
Here is the real numbers thread LSW posted. Make your own assumption about attrition based on real numbers.
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Looks like a lot of folks hitting the door compared to the rest of the SEC. Yes, even those with coaching changes and those "flipping the roster". It does look like other programs value the idea that keeping some kids around long enough to be JRs and SRs isn't a bad plan.

"We gots no time to develop them". That still has me cracking up today.
 
#1,189
#1,189
LebanonVolunteer said:
Looks like a lot of folks hitting the door compared to the rest of the SEC. Yes, even those with coaching changes and those "flipping the roster". It does look like other programs value the idea that keeping some kids around long enough to be JRs and SRs isn't a bad plan.

"We gots no time to develop them". That still has me cracking up today.
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When you sign over 60 in 2 classes, there simply isn't room for everyone with a limit of 85 total on scholarship. Players that are projects will be cut (by cut I mean told to look around for a new home) because the coaches can't and don't have the time or the space on the roster to wait and see if they can play by the time they are redshirt Jr. or Sr.

This is a simple concept that I have explained before on here. Even my 13 years old son gets it. He says "Yea, Dad, it's the same thing that happens in the NFL too."
 
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#1,192
#1,192
vol81 said:
Im still trying to figure out what LVs real point is.
What a silly waste of time.
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All you have to do is look in every thread in the RF to see Leb's motive coming through. He really doesn't have a point...he is looking for the position to espouse that provides the most animosity and discussion with people trying to explain things to him. He then pretends not to understand or just completely ignores everything said that doesn't fit his momentary agenda. He will even switch to the other side of an argument if all of sudden more people are agreeing rather than arguing. :eek:lol:
 
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#1,193
#1,193
Exiled said:
All you have to do is look in every thread in the RF to see Leb's motive coming through. He really doesn't have a point...he is looking for the position to espouse that provides the most animosity and discussion with people trying to explain things to him. He then pretends not to understand or just completely ignores everything said that doesn't fit his momentary agenda. He will even switch to the other side of an argument if all of sudden more people are agreeing rather than arguing. :eek:lol:
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I don't do a lot of flipping. Shows a lack of commitment. TIFWIW
 
#1,195
#1,195
AllVolinGA said:
http://www.volnation.com/forum/tennessee-vols-football/235559-fyi.html
Here is the real numbers thread LSW posted. Make your own assumption about attrition based on real numbers.
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A couple of stats that were interesting to me while analyzing that spreadsheet. The first team I went to was Alabama seeing as though they are thought to be the gold standard. And what I noticed was the first 2 years Saban was there, they lost 27 guys to attrition compared to our 16. Muschamp had 18 his first 2 years at Florida. Richt's largest 2 year attrition number was 22 in 2002 and 2003, his 2nd and 3rd year at UGA. Les Miles had 73 players leave the program his first 7 years.

My conclusion is not only that attrition/players leaving happen at every big time program, but appear to do so the most when a new coach arrives at that respective program. So Butch losing 16 players for various reasons isn't that shocking of a number. In fact, I would suggest it is necessary to have some sort of roster turnover to change the culture of a program.
 
#1,196
#1,196
Since our attrition rate is higher than most, then that would mean we don't really have a top 5 signing class last year and probably not this year, since we will be losing 7-8 again from the 2015 class.
 
#1,199
#1,199
chavisut said:
Find a group of 20 plus upcoming sophomores you would trade ours for.

You won't find five.
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Of course I wouldn't. I tend to value kids who have chose UT. If you pay attention, probably more than most on here. "No projects"! "No time for development"! "Make room, sign more, sign more"!

Now if I'm being unbiased and our #5 class loses say 8 kids from it, to say it's no longer close to actually being #5 is reasonable.
 
#1,200
#1,200
LebanonVolunteer said:
Of course I wouldn't. I tend to value kids who have chose UT. If you pay attention, probably more than most on here. "No projects"! "No time for development"! "Make room, sign more, sign more"!

Now if I'm being unbiased and our #5 class loses say 8 kids from it, to say it's no longer close to actually being #5 is reasonable.
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Those twenty plus will be developed. Attrition from the '14 was inevitable.
 
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