The "Occupy" Rallies

#302
#302
Brewerw said:
No, but a person is not a company. People are way more important than money and I would gladly pay more money to the government to ensure every American is promised food and shelter, a free education, and free health care.
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But why do you consider the government the best and most efficient at doing these things?

If I was given the option to pay x amount to taxes or 2x to charities that I choose (even from a list of preselected choices), I would choose 2x every time.
 
#303
#303
Brewerw said:
There's your mistake. The government is the only way to ensure everyone who needs help gets it. People will abuse the system, that doesn't change that it's morally the right thing to do.
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My mistake would be expecting a politician to do whats right for anybody but himself. Your mistake is thinking they give a rats ass about anyone outside of that.

As far as the moral thing to do. I agree. The government has no business being the middle man.
 
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#304
#304
Brewerw said:
No, but a person is not a company. People are way more important than money and I would gladly pay more money to the government to ensure every American is promised food and shelter, a free education, and free health care.
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get farging started.
 
#305
#305
Brewerw said:
There's your mistake. The government is the only way to ensure everyone who needs help gets it. People will abuse the system, that doesn't change that it's morally the right thing to do.
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Not sure how you've determined what is morally right.

I would argue that much of the help we give is morally wrong because it breeds dependency.
 
#306
#306
lawgator1 said:
You associate the notion of criticizing big business as always a "left wing ideal."
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No I don't. I just pointed out the ignorance of complaining about a lack of good jobs when you chase industries that create good jobs out of the country on a consistent basis.

I have frequently said that one of the reasons gov't should not be involved in picking winners/losers but instead should be an unbiased referree that enforces the rules is that anything "big" is a threat to the people and their freedoms. Big business, big gov't, big labor, big education, big religion, big environmentalism, big media,.... any time power is concentrated in the hands of the few... there WILL BE CORRUPTION.

You are focusing on the zanies you want to because it reinforces your sarcasm, but you are not listening to what is really being said by the main group.
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I probably know as much about what the "main group" is after as the avg protester in those crowds.
Its not left or right nearly as much as it is the all-too cozy relationship between big business and government institutions. Its not nearly as much about "where's mine" as it is "how come the top always make out okay while the rest of us hardly ever do?"
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Yet you still think that big gov't is the answer. If you concentrate that much power in Washington... the corruption you and I both hate will occur. It cannot be avoided.

It has been the Progressive age that has facilitated this unholy alliance between big business/banks and big gov't. The finance reform bill penalized who? It penalized small banks that had REFUSED to make bad the types of bad loans that led to the subprime crisis.

The complaint is that the game is rigged. And it is. You have said so many times yourself.
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Agree with the complaint... but the proposed solution seems to be either a gov't takeover or else even more gov't involvement in "decision making". Those "solutions" are sure fire recipe for making things much worse.
 
#307
#307
Brewerw said:
There's your mistake. The government is the only way to ensure everyone who needs help gets it. People will abuse the system, that doesn't change that it's morally the right thing to do.
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so you want to impose your view of morality on others using the tax code?
 
#308
#308
Brewerw said:
There's your mistake. The government is the only way to ensure everyone who needs help gets it. People will abuse the system, that doesn't change that it's morally the right thing to do.
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Not at all. The poor in America were taken care of privately prior to gov't wealth transfers... but the private system rarely made them permanent dependents or killed their souls.

And btw, considering the establishment clause, what gives you the authority to determine what is "morally right" concerning money and property that does not belong to YOU... and that neither YOU nor those you want the money given to earned?
 
#309
#309
Please see my companion thread about the bank mortgage fund proposal being negotiated right now. It tells you what you need to know about these rallies.
 
#310
#310
MG1968 said:
what did your friends think about corporate profits when they were employed?
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308301_2329773076078_1002248520_2604878_2054336327_n.jpg





MG1968 said:
I flagged it as spam/overpost.

getting paid to be a street agitator is not a government job

btw, 350 to 650/week is not a "living wage" in New York City
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That seems to be sort of a stupid move on your part.

These freaks aren't looking for a living wage, they are
lloking for enough to buy some dope and party.

Look at the refuse.

How much of this was purchased on momma's credit
card then abandoned when they wanted to go home?

article-2046586-0E4811E800000578-156_634x414.jpg




vols4sure said:
How? There are always going to be some idiots in any large group. Most of these stories are about a group of protestors doing something terrible or not being peaceful.

Can you at least provide one story of a group of tea party protestors doing something outrageous, racist, violent, etc?

Surely there are tons of these types of stories since you claim that the the majority of the group are at least racists.
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And at worst terrorists!

(Boston Herald) — The downtown protest group Occupy
Boston threw its proverbial doors open yesterday, and
played host to supporters of accused terrorist Terak
Mehanna, who are looking to raise awareness of the
Sudbury man’s upcoming trial.

The Tarek Mehanna Support Committee came to Occupy
Boston’s ever-evolving tent city on the Rose Kennedy
Greenway to say Mehanna, a Muslim American
pharmacist, is a victim of anti-Muslim sentiment.

The U.S. government says Mehanna, 28, provided
“material support to a designated foreign terrorist
organization,” and acted as a “media wing” for
al-Qaeda .

Occupy Boston hosted the pro-Mehanna rally,.......

Oh wait, who are the terrorists again?
 
#317
#317
lawgator1 said:
Its been all over the news of late. Seriously. Rather a common event these days. Google it, I am sure it will come up.
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Yeah, it's been all over the news . . . and every time I've heard it, it's been an intellectually dishonest, apples and oranges comparison between an independently wealthy guy paying a dividend tax rate vs. somebody paying an income tax rate.
 
#318
#318
Brewerw said:
Hahaha please. I have no reason to question my friends and you shouldn't care.
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I don't care. I just wonder how you came to the conclusion that only the government can ensure fairness.
 
#319
#319
GAVol said:
Yeah, it's been all over the news . . . and every time I've heard it, it's been an intellectually dishonest, apples and oranges comparison between an independently wealthy guy paying a dividend tax rate vs. somebody paying an income tax rate.
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If the dividends make you a millionaire every year its pretty hard to explain to someone who works at Wal-Mart for $20,000 why their rate should be higher than yours.
 
#321
#321
lawgator1 said:
If the dividends make you a millionaire every year its pretty hard to explain to someone who works at Wal-Mart for $20,000 why their rate should be higher than yours.
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how would it be lower than 0%?

how much did that person pay in taxes to get into a point where their investments provided such a lifestyle?
 
#323
#323
utvolpj said:
how would it be lower than 0%?

how much did that person pay in taxes to get into a point where their investments provided such a lifestyle?
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How much in raw dollars or what effective rate?

At any rate, not an effective argument given the disparity at work there.
 
#324
#324
Brewerw said:
Oh I have. I never apply for a tax credit if that means anything to you.
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I see you also haven't donated your PC to the poor or turned your internet service off and contributed that to the poor... right?
 
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